(**Response to this post has been overwhelming, generating over 1 Million page views and a great deal of positive discussion. To see the follow-ups to this post, click here.**)
This post is all I have to say about the Chick-Fil-A controversy. It sums up various posts on the issue and various points made by my friends and I. From now on, rather than spend time debating this issue person by person, I’m going to point people here.
My hope here is to find common ground with those who have disagreed with me on the issue, and maybe to persuade. It’s not to ridicule or to best.
So, in the interest of common ground, let’s start here: I acknowledge the absurdity of all this debate.
It’s definitely strange to have days-long Facebook debates flare up everywhere over a chicken sandwich. The anger, sarcasm, and hurt feelings on display seem strange or even laughable because most people have seen Chick-Fil-A as just a restaurant with a funny ad campaign. I’ll get into some of the whys and wherefores of that later. But, for now, let’s just say that, yes. It can seem ridiculous to get all worked up over fast-food chicken.
Let’s also agree that this isn’t about curtailing anyone’s rights under First Amendment. The Constitution is a legal document. This is not a legal argument. No one is arguing that Chik-fil-A CEO Dan Cathy should be put in prison, or silenced, or censored by the government. This has nothing to do with government censorship or government abridgment of Freedom of Speech. So don’t worry: the ability of this millionaire to legally spend his millions as he sees fit is not in jeopardy. You need not defend it.
Now, let’s get to the nitty-gritty of things. Please read carefully. These things have been said before, but not by me, and not all in one place. Please read with an open mind. If you can’t read with an open mind, please leave, take a minute, come back, and try again. If you can’t do that, then please don’t bother. Please read all of the words here, rather than just reading half of the argument and assuming you know what I’m saying. Read these words as they are written. Again, if you don’t want to read my words, then don’t continue.
So here goes:
1. This isn’t simply about marriage. Shocker, right? It’s extremely frustrating that same-sex marriage is the great continental divide. People are judged according to how they stand on this issue, as if no other issue matters. Did you know that a person can be for same-sex marriage and still be homophobic? Did you know that a person can be against same-sex marriage and be gay? We all get categorized very quickly based on the marriage issue and maybe that’s not fair. But here’s what you should know:
- In 29 states in America today, my partner of 18 years, Cody, or I could be fired for being gay. Period. No questions asked. One of those states is Louisiana, our home state. We live in self-imposed exile from beloved homeland, family, and friends, in part, because of this legal restriction on our ability to live our lives together.
- In 75 countries in the world, being gay is illegal. In many, the penalty is life in prison. These are countries we can’t openly visit. In 9 countries, being gay is punishable by death. In many others, violence against gays is tacitly accepted by the authorities. These are countries where we would be killed. Killed.
- Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.
- Chick-Fil-A has given roughly $5M to these organizations to support their work.
- Chick-Fil-A’s money comes from the profits they make when you purchase their products.
2. This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t. There is no “live and let live” on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.
Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running up to a bully beating a kid to death on the playground and scolding them both for not getting along. I’m not trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage or make his sex illegal. I’m not trying to make him a second-class citizen, or get him killed. He’s doing that to me, folks; I’m just fighting back.
All your life, you’re told to stand up to bullies, but when WE do it, we’re told WE are the ones being intolerant? Well, okay. Yes. I refuse to tolerate getting my ass kicked. “Guilty as charged.”
But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.
3. This isn’t about Jesus. I have a lot of Christian friends. Most of them are of the liberal variety, it’s true, but even this concept seems lost on some of you. Most of them are pro-LGBT rights. Pro-gay and Pro-Christ are NOT mutually exclusive. They never have been, in the history of Christianity, though it’s been difficult at times. It’s not impossible to be both.
If someone is telling you it is, then maybe you should wonder why they’d do that. I see divorced Christians, remarried Christians, drug addict Christians. I see people with WWJD bracelets bumping and grinding on TV and raking in millions to do it. I see greedy, rapacious, vengeful people who are Christians. And these people are accepted in the Church, and the Church does very little to combat them. Sometimes it seems like being gay is the ONLY thing certain modern Christian movements won’t allow. Why’s that, I wonder?
Jesus had almost nothing to say about sexual behavior of any kind. He was too busy teaching more important things. Empathy is at the heart of his teachings. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Remember that? It’s in red. So let’s examine that:
4. If things were reversed, I’d stand up for you.
Please think about this: How would you feel if KFC came out tomorrow and said they were spending money against equality for Asian Americans, or African Americans, or religious people? Really. Think about it. What would you do? How would you feel? How would you feel if, after their announcement, there was a big increase in KFC sales and I was all over Facebook supporting KFC. Please stop reading right now and imagine this. I’m serious.
You can stop now because it’s ludicrous. It would never happen.
Oh, I don’t mean the part about KFC being against some group. That COULD happen. I mean the part about me supporting them. Let me tell you something, and you can damn well believe it: I’d sign on for the boycott IMMEDIATELY.
Why? Well, because I believe in equality for all people, that’s why. But also, personally, from the bottom of my heart: because you are my friend, and I don’t willingly support people who harm you for just being you. How could I? How could I, really? But, more importantly for our purposes, how could you?
Seriously, how could you? What has Chick-Fil-A ever done for you? Sold you some fatty chicken at a ridiculous mark-up? Made you chuckle at semi-literate cartoon cows? You mean more to me than KFC possibly could. If I, in turn, don’t mean more to you than a chicken sandwich from Chik-Fil-A–if my life, my quality of life, and my dignity are such afterthoughts to you that you’d not only refuse the boycott, but go out of your way to support someone who was hurting me? if I let this stand, if I don’t stand up to the bullies and if I let my friends egg the bullies on, what does that make me?
Well, it makes me a Chikin.
Yeah, so suddenly it is cause for anger, ridiculous or not.
But I’m not going to stop being Facebook friends with anyone over this issue.
Instead, I will remain. And, when you see my face with my partner’s in my profile, maybe you will examine not simply what your opinions are about gay people, or gay marriage, or the first amendment, even; maybe you’ll examine not merely your opinions but your values. What is friendship to you? What is loyalty? How important are human life and dignity to you? Are they more important than fitting in with your social group? Are they more important than loyalty to a corporate brand, or a political party, or some misguided church teaching?
That’s why we’re so angry. This is personal for us. There are times in your life when you have the opportunity to stand up for your friends. When you let that opportunity pass, your friends notice. It doesn’t mean we can’t be friends, but it diminishes you, and it diminishes the friendship. That’s how it is, no matter what the issue or what the venue.
So stand up. Stand up for us. Do the right thing. You don’t have to agree with us on everything, but repudiate Chick-Fil-A. Unlike them on Facebook. Withdraw your support for them. Join us in the boycott. If you can’t do that, then please ask yourself whether I’m your friend. In fact, ask yourself whether anyone is.
This is all I have to say. If you’d like to debate the issue further, I’ll do it, but I’m not going to go around and around on the same points. If you’re just going to repeat yourself, save us both some time. If you haven’t taken the time to actually read this carefully and actually consider carefully what I’ve said, then I see no reason to waste further words.
The ball is in your court. Again, I urge you to do the right thing.
(**Response to this post has been overwhelming, generating over 1 Million page views and a great deal of positive discussion. To see the follow-up to this post, click here.**)
- Wayne Self
Twitter: @owldolatrous
Facebook: facebook.com/owldolatrous
NOTE: If you send me feedback, you are agreeing that anything you send via email or Facebook may be quoted by me in future blog posts! I will withhold your name unless you indicate that you don’t mind it being used.
Wayne Self is a playwright and composer, Huffington Post blogger, and GLAAD media spokesperson who founded Owldolatrous Press, an online journal of analysis and inspiration for LGBTQ people and their friends, featuring arts, fiction, and analysis from a diversity of voices and opinions.
His current theatre project is a musical tribute to the 32 LGBT and allied victims of the 1973 arson fire at the Upstairs Lounge in New Orleans, LA. Considered by many to be the largest hate crime against LGBT people in U.S. history, the fire is sometimes seen as a lesson in the perils of silence. ”Upstairs” will give voice to the victims of the fire–many of whom self-identified as Christian–and is scheduled to premier next year, in time for the 40th anniversary of the tragedy. For more information about the Upstairs fire, please visit http://tinyurl.com/8g6lr8j. For booking or production information, contact ewayneself@owldolatrous.com.
[...] Also, pretty good synopsis of the whole thing, but I am sure that everyone will thin its dumb http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288 Reply With [...]
[...] and Bigotry Playwright and composer Wayne Self nails the Chick-fil-A controversy in a must-read essay at his blog: Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections [...]
[...] actually hadn’t posted anything on the matter, but I felt compelled to share this link. It summed the issue up in a way I had not seen anywhere else. To wit: This isn’t about mutual [...]
Great post! You make the same points that I have made to people who are supporting CFA. I will definitely share your post.
I am commenting on this post as a Christian. Not as a homosexual or a gay activist but as a person who is secure in his beliefs. Homosexuality is an unnatural relationship between two people of the same sex and no matter what anyone tells me, I will believe it is wrong to this day. God made Adam and then He made Eve, He never made Adam and Steve. If I were you, I would research why so many true Christians are against homosexuality. It is an immorality that is being entered into the minds of our children slowly yet still working its evil, like a Trojan horse on your computer. Don’t hate me because I am not for your behaviour, according to my beliefs it is unnatural and nothing you tell me will have the slightest influence on me to change my mind.
So proud to be so stiffnecked. What a pity. Praying for you.
you are projecting your beliefs on other people, using religion as a shield to take away another AMERICAN’s rights. I am a pro-gay marriage Catholic. I like history, I have seen the Catholic Church use religion as a tool to discriminate against others repeatedly. I will never make that mistake. And really…Adam and Steve and Trojan horses? Come on!! This is PEOPLE we are talking about. Not fantasy’s.
And according to my beliefs your religion is nothing but a Jewish fairy tale nothing you tell me will have the slightest influence on me to change my mind. The problem is that laws that hurt me are being based upon your Jewish fairy tale.
Actually, there are people in the world named Adam and people named Steve. And I’m pretty sure God made them both…
Very well said. Thank you!
Thank you for this beautifully written piece. It touches my heart and the heart of the matter. <3
Due to the response to this posting, I’m braving the spam-bots (which are vicious) and opening up moderated comments here. You can also find me via email at ewayneself@owldolatrous.com and on twitter at @owldolatrous.
If you liked this post, you may be interested in my latest project, Upstairs, which is a musical memorial to the 32 men and women–many who self-identified as Christian– who died in the arson fire at the Upstairs Lounge in New Orleans in 1973 in a crime considered to be the largest hate crime against LGBT people in U.S. History. The project is in development and scheduled to debut next summer. See http://www.owldolatrous.com/?page_id=130 or the Upstairs FB fan page for more information.
Beautifully written. I wish more people would think about your arguments and how sound they are.
This really brings home the implications of the whole Chick Fil-A situation. I am disgusted that anyone would proactively support Chick Fil-A for their bigotry. What next, will people be supporting the idea of gay people having to wear a yellow “G” sewn to their clothes? People need to sober up and wipe the crap from their eyes cause America, you should be ASHAMED for what you’ve become.
Thank you so much for putting all my thoughts into well written article.
Thank you for this! It was wonderfully written and really got across so many of the points I have been trying to make with people.
Absolutely beautifully put. Thank you.
Thank you for putting into words how I feel about this, much better than I could.
I agree with everything you have said.I have posted that I boycot CFA, not because I do not support the first ammendment as some people suggest, but because I do not want my Lunch $$$ to support Cathy’s agenda against the gay community. Jesus’ message was about inclusive love, that is what I believe and What I CANNOT understand when Christians vow they are following the Biblical principles.
these people who are lining up to buy CFA in support of Cathy are sheep with little brains and I feel sorry for them. As for the word Tolerance, I DO NOT USE IT as it suggest you have to PUT UP WITH SOMETHING THAT IS ABHORANT TO YOU. I tolerate nasty Medicine and surgery for my own good, But using that word to suggest a relationship with people is antireligious. So there FOF and ALL the right wing antithinking people in this country. Do read your Bible and DO understand why Leviticus was written the way it was-FOR POPULATION GROWTH. sad, sad, sad,,,,,,,, Then read the other tenents of that same book and follow ALL OF THEM IF YOU ARE TOO DENSE TO THINK!
Thank you for your words. Have never eaten any of this product and know I never will.
As the mother of a gay son who in his 40 years has seen a lot of bashing begining when we moved to a small 500 population , mountain town and he suffered in silence before he came out to us.
Excellent essay! I’ve already shared on FB. Thanks for laying out all the points in one very well written post.
I haven’t seen such aa awesome commentary on the issue, as yours. Thank you!
This post is so excellent, I can’t for the life of me understand why you chose to give it a title that is guaranteed to be off-putting to the very people who need to read this, and who might very well be persuaded by it. Is being clever really more important than getting people to read and think?
A fair point. The title was written long before I knew it would be used in such a way. Feel free to cut and paste without the title, if you attribute the article to me and link back to it.
But, your title is why I won’t be re-posting anything that leads back to your article. I support all people’s right to lead the life they chose. I do however have a problem with outrageous behavior. As the years have progressed, I have become accustomed to the exhibitionism that seems to come with the gay life. I can see how these “flauntings” raise the ire of your average bigot (being raised by bigots gives me an insight to their thinking). Over the years I have watched the debates rage across mainstream media and the internet. I have always tempered my views based on “Do unto others”. I feel everyone’s life would be better if we all put ourselves in others’ shoes. The problem is that my family and friends who are of a bigoted attitude, need clear and concise information fed to them to bump them closer to the thinking that most caring and loving people already posses. Does this mean that you can’t be the person you are? All I know is that if I repost a link back to this article with this name, I will lose the attention of those that I feel are in the most need of the message inside it. And, the next time I post something for their edification, I am afraid that their narrow minds will still be focused on this title and allow the message to be lost……………………..
You’re taking way too much responsibility for these narrow minded people you’re referencing. Fellatio is a very low curb to trip over. It’s 2012, we are all grownups now.
I will stand up for you. I have stood. I will continue standing. I have lost “friends” over this in the last 2 days- so be it. No human being should be treated unfairly. Equality is for all. Love is Love. In my own family and circle of friends I have gay, lesbian and transgender- I know what the pain and shame and embarrassment is like, and I would give my own heart and soul to make it change, make it better. We are working on anti Chick fil A t-shirts in our studio right now, and plan on giving the proceeds to Equality/LGBT fundraising efforts. Stay tuned to pinkboXstudio on facebook for the shirts to arrive. We are passionate about this issue and we will not rest until there is peace and equality for all.
Stay Strong!
Debbie
Nail meet head. Thank you.
Right ON. Wonderfully said. Thank you so very much. Will be sharing this on FB & following your lead by pointing folks here. Keep up the great work!
This is a very thoughtful and well said post. I’m not sure I could be so patient with people I find hypocritical and intolerant. Thank you for sharing a peaceful discussion about the situation.
Well said my friend. I had no idea of the work going on in other countries! Absolutely amazing! I have been thinking somehow this was a way for so-called Christians to gay bash. They are just using the whole freedom of speech thing to cover their asses. I’m not gay but I have gay friends that I wouldn’t trade for the world. I hate you all have to live in a world that some in 2012 can’t get w the program and just enjoy this life. That.k you again for such an inspiring post.
Well expressed and I WOULD LOVE TO REPOST THIS BUT… Unfortunately some of the straight laced, conservative people that I know would never read further than the word fellatio in the title. Is there a way to repost w/o the title?
Sure, just cut and paste! Just please share a link back to my site and make sure you attribute it to me.
Good luck with your friends!
Thank you for this. I am not gay but you have summed up my thoughts more eloquently than I ever could. I will also be pointing people to this post rather than trying to restate my opinions over and over to people who aren’t really listening. It gets tiring, and makes me sadder each time. Thank you for your words. I do hope they can convince more people to stand up for what is right and good and just.
so well written! I’ve often asked “what if they gave money to the KKK” and Im always met with “It is freedom of speech”.
thank you for a thoughtful piece. i will share it with my friends and family.
Everyone should read this w an open mind. Imagine if your son or daughter were treated like this. It would be unbearable to even think for me. I always felt this was a way for so called Christians to gay bash and usefreddom of speed h to cover their asses! I’m now sure I was right all along! So sad the world we live in
I wish we were FB friends so you could see my post yesterday. I am the biggest Jesus loving girl you can find, and this was my comment: “Go ahead and get mad at because here it goes: I’ve been wondering all day if Jesus would’ve gone to CFA. I think He would’ve gathered all His gay friends and met in the park for a picnic. That’s what I wish I could’ve done today.” I welcome all points of view and for the most part people were respectful… UNTIL… I said that if there was a gay parade I thought Jesus would be at the front wearing a rainbow tshirt, because He would be broken hearted that an entire population of His children had been isolated and condemned. I was called a blasphemer and had such hate thrown at me from a Christian…a woman who says she’s a Christian but doesn’t seem to have a clue who Christ is. Please know that there are conservative Christians who love you and respect your life and choices. I know the Bible says homosexuality is a sin as it says one million other things are too. Somehow the church as a whole has decided that homosexuality is “THE BIG SIN” and that the church needed to go after them. It’s a witch hunt. I can’t speak for God but personally I feel that when He called homosexuality an abomination He was referring to acts at the time. When Paul and the apostles were sharing the Gospel there were huge populations of people worshipping pagan gods. Part of these “acts of worship” were huge orgies including men having sex on altars and forcing young boys to have sex.. I think of Sodom and Gomorrah where the people of the city were trying to force Lot into giving them the angels so they could have sex (rape) them. That is an abomination as I’m sure many would agree. That’s just how I see things. The point is I don’t know and neither do all these judgemental people who throw stones with the name Jesus written on the side. What we do know is that Jesus did tell us to LOVE LOVE LOVE. That’s all we’re supposed to do. Why do some people find that so hard? If Christians believe that God is love, then love can come from no other source. The devil can try to copy love, and it shows up as desperation, abusive relationships, drug abuse, pornography, and so on. TRUE love and devotion can only come from OUR Savior, so the love that anyone feels for their partner whether gay or straight comes from Him. It’s crazy….. God has given me a huge special love for the gay community. I can’t even explain it…. I’ve had people tell me that I’m a wishy washy Christian who lies to people when I don’t tell gay people that they’re obviously going to hell…and I don’t care. I know what’s in my heart and that’s love. If you ever want a conservative Christian’s viewpoint or support please feel free to contact me. I’m holding hands with you. Giving up CFA is hard for me, because I DO LOVE a chicken sandwich. I am an Alabama girl after all. LOL. Just being honest. Having said that, your life is more important to me than lunch. Love to you, Lou.
I adored this response sooooo much.
Absolutely brilliant.
I’ll raise a drink to your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness and the hope that you won’t be waiting long to realize the same protections the rest of us so dangerously take for granted.
Beautifully written. I’m still wiping tears from my eyes. Never give up the fight! The day will come when there won’t be a need for touching posts like this. Your post is helping that day to come. Bravo!
Thank you!
I understand your point and I am pro-gay, but just for one, Chick-Fil-A had nothing to do with this day, at all. They did not make this day up for more sales or promotions. Mike Huckabee made it up. And the CEO of Chick-Fil-A felt it necessary to tell people what they support. He doesn’t tell people what they should be against. And I know saying that you support tradition marriage is basically saying that you are against gay marriage. But just try to think about it from both sides. The CEO is just standing up for what he believes, and he is not bashing your values or views. So if you were truly for “equality for all” then you wouldn’t get so offended when someone besides a homosexual stands up for what they believe. I just personally think that is very hypocritical. And I’m sorry if I’m taking your words the wrong way. If so I’m sorry and please correct me. I really did appreciate your article here.
“The CEO is just standing up for what he believes, and he is not bashing your values or views”
dood, doodette,
mr. cathy is (has) tossing off millions of dollars to see to it that this mans life style is not recognized. how much more “bashing” could he be! just imagine how he’d whine if his employees had asked for a raise that had amounted to a couple of million. he’d be tossing them out left and right.
Just a quick reply here to let you know I support you and I totally agree and enjoyed your blog regarding Chick-Fil-A. The point you made, that I was needing made, so desperately, is the fact that I consider myself a Christian and I also support gay marriage. Many feel you cannot be a Christian and also support gay marriage and this is not true! Thank you again for your wise words. I look forward to reading more of your blogs and I will be following you on Facebook! Sincerely, Angie Lawson
So amazingly moving and touching. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Wayne, great post. Sadly, there will be people who read this and scoff because they do not have and do not care to have and would never willingly have any gay friends. Those people would see the friendship of a gay closeted person as a personal affront and wouldn’t take the time to have a conversation with and actually get to know any gay person who was out. The couldn’t by their own conscience tolerate it.
Of course, I find that ironic given that most of the people who are so adamantly opposed to homosexuality and more importantly to homosexual people are Christians whose central figure was very clear about refraining from judgment and loving all people as they are. I would consider myself politically liberal, but religiously conservative. I don’t know if that’s the same as being a liberal Christian, but it saddens me that hate is somehow an acceptable interpretation of Christ’s teachings. I find it even more sad that friends of mine, good people overall, were among those lined up at CFA yesterday.
Though I am cynical because hate is so closed-minded, I do hope that your post will touch some people and change not just minds, but hearts.
That’s an extremely well thought out and well written post. And I agree with almost all of what you said, but if I might, I’d like to point out a couple of things I disagree with.
With regards to the comment about KFC and working against racial groups…It’s not the same thing. Being gay isn’t a protected class. It should be…and I would fully support a Constitutional Amendment making it so, but right now…it’s not. There very thin legal ground to stand on as far as the federal government is concerned and will be until, and if, SCoTUS ever rules that the equal protection clause extends to sexual preference and identity.
Second…with regards to Chick-fil-A…I wouldn’t eat there if you payed for the meal, so I was a part of the boycott because there was a boycott, heh. I think the CEO’s position is odious and hypocritical with regards to the central tenets of the Bible…and I think company policies with regards to it’s support of organizations that want to harm people over their sexual preference absolutely warrant a boycott in protest of these policies. You don’t get to harm others in the name of religious freedom.
However…this whole brouhaha began because the mayor of one of the oldest and largest cities in North American abused his position by putting out what amounted to a policy statement barring Chick-fil-A from doing business in that city. He did so on City letterhead signing as the mayor of the city, and not as a private citizen making a statement about his personal beliefs, no matter how much he’s backpedaled on that in the press.
Now you may, correctly, point out that he has no power to enforce what he said, but as someone who’s worked in government for most of his adult life, I can say with great certainty that the appointed individuals that work for the mayor would make it happen rather than face having their employment contracts not renewed by possibly angering the boss. Zoning…Code Enforcement…Business Permits…all could, and likely would, hold up the process or flat out deny necessary permits as these employees did there best to legally enforce the mayor’s will.
And the corporation wouldn’t be hurt by it. They’d sue and win. But the franchisee, who probably has most of his life savings tied up in opening his own business, would suffer, and so would civil liberties.
So this whole controversy has been stoked and brought people out of the woodwork to support this company, who otherwise might have sided with those behind this boycott, all because of the ego of one man.
And that’s something everyone should be aware of…and address as part of the debate. Too many people who are a part of this boycott have given the mayor of Boston kudos for his “courageous stand” when in reality the should be excoriating him for abusing his position and threatening civil rights.
Love your words!!! I am a African American sistah that’s also a BOSTONIAN, my mayor was the unfortunate one to start all of this freedom of speech banter back and forth, that has erupted into full on political warfare. I just have to say that what our mayor did was speak for the majority of his constituents here in this beautiful city. He went on record saying that he would use all his might to make sure that a business that uses its money to aid in the restriction, and banning of rights to others, possible BOSTONIANS, had no place in his city, especially in a location (at the feet of the freedom trail and the halocaust memorial) a location that for many around the world holds the signifigance of racial freedom, social justice and tolerance. My mayor was speaking for me. As did many mayors and other public officials did in the 60′s when blacks/afro-americans were struggling to be treated equally in this country. It took many years of dialouge, tons of protest, death, murder and struggle for an amendment to the constitution to be made, giving equal rights to blacks, and now here we are again. It takes 1 person to stand up for what they believe in to get it started, it sometimes means we have to break the rules. That’s what he did and I’m glad he did.
Also I am so glad Chick-fil-A got the point and decided to stay away from Boston because our city would have to spend so much money on police detail and trash removal for all the boycotting and protesting that would have ensued had they come to the freedom trail. I prefer my tax dollars be spent on teaching tolerance in a much more peaceful manner.
Thanks again for this lovely well written blog post, keep on keeping on brother.
Very well said. Kudos buddy.
Your eloquence, thoughtfulness, honesty, and directness are beautiful. I hope more people read this post and allow themselves to take in the truths you have braved to share.
Beautifully written!! A must read for EVERYONE!!
Wonderful <3
So true! Thank you for sharing, I replayed this and hopefully people will take your advise and read this with an open mind!
THANK YOU!
I’m a straight, Christian female living in Alabama & you’ve perfectly expressed what I feel about this whole situation.
Seeing police officers having to direct traffic in front the local Chick-Fil-A yesterday made my heart hurt so much. Knowing that the INCREDIBLE amount of money being spent there yesterday would ultimately be used to fuel hate and that all the people waiting hours in line feel that people that I love are lesser in some way brought tears to my eyes.
I can’t imagine what it was like for my gay friends to see that as they drove by on their way to work or school.
I believe if Jesus were here yesterday, he wouldn’t have been in line waiting for chicken. He would have been with the gay kid who was crying, alone in his room because he can’t understand why people hate him just for existing. Jesus would have put his arm around the kid’s shoulder & told him that He loves him.
“…but the greatest of these in LOVE.”
Very well said. Hopefully this can help people understand the true reason for the boycott.
[...] a great post on the issues that really matter. 38.233552 -85.741817 [...]
You’re off base from the get go “Let’s also agree that this isn’t about curtailing anyone’s rights under First Amendment. The Constitution is a legal document.” Sorry, you are wrong. This errupted due to government officials stating they would not allowa CFA in their state/city/town/municipality. This is exactly the kind of government action the first ammendment was authored to protect against. You have a dog in this fight and refuse to see that this is the central issue. If you wouldn’t support KFC’s right to have an owner (remember, it’s not the franchises, nor the managers, nor the fry cooks, just the single owner of CFA who made a statement) to speak ridiculous thoughts and not have governemnt retribution, perhaps you don’t understand the USA.
I never said I approved of the actions of the municipalities. Please read what I said, not what you think I said.
I fully agree with SirCasio. I realize that you didn’t say you approved of the actions of the municipalities, but you did say this: “This has nothing to do with government censorship or government abridgment of Freedom of Speech. ” You’re wrong. It does and it did. The whole situation was caused because of the Government officials who attempted to persecute someone for expressing his views. I talked to many people that day (yes I was there), and nobody I talked to was there to support Mr Cathy’s views on gay-marriage. No one was anti-gay, and most weren’t anti-gay OR anti-gay marriage, and I live right on the upper edge of the Bible Belt. They were there, as was I, because they were furious that elected officials would publicly state that they would “use their powers” to stop Chick-fil-A from operating in their cities. No American should stand for that, and people rose up to express their support for our Constitutional rights, not necessarily for Mr Cathy’s views. As far as the remainder of your post, I do agree, however, my feelings are that you viewed the issue too narrowly. It wasn’t about gay rights or gay marriage at all. And you missed that.
Way to make me ugly cry.
Thanks for taking the time for writing this. I know there are a lot of legal battles going on with the business side of things (city stopping business from opening, business sues city for discrimination) and I believe that deserves attention. But I think the main issue should be why are people going so far out of their way to stop gay marriage? I am just going to keep asking people, how are you personally going to be affected if a gay couple gets married, and wait for a response so I can try and understand where they are coming from. I saw this today and wanted to share it. “Freedom of speech is nothing without equality for everyone. If you don’t consider someone equal how will you ever really hear them?”
I did read, and I listened… I really have to agree… “I am a Christian” HOWEVER, I have love in my heart and all this hate is just not right. I have always said “Gay’s are not hurting you or me, let them be”. I have many gay friends, I have gone out with, worked with, and actually roomed with…
All this crap that I’m reading is crazy. I didn’t realize that Chic Fil A supported those organizations. THat is just SICK!!!
God says to love one another… He loves us all…No matter who we are, or what we do, we are His children. If He only loves the people that do nothing wrong…then He would love no one… because we all fall short to the glory of God. All of us are sinners. I sin daily, not because I do it on purpose, it is our nature…That does not mean He doesnt love me. You are Gay. Man or woman… that does not mean He does not love you… He does not love what we do, He loves us unconditionally.
Love has no boundries, it does not tell us who we can and cannot love…we just love. My heart goes out to you…I don’t know how difficult it is for you to live (under cover) in a place where you are not wanted and ridiculed for who you are and your beliefs. Don’t think I could do it. My hat goes off to ya.
I’m a conservative Christian. I don’t think anyone, gay or straight, should have to get permission from the government to get married. I don’t think mayors should publicly say they will ban Ben and Jerry’s for supporting gay marriage initiatives, and I don’t think mayors should publicly say they will ban Chik-Fil-A for donating money to traditional marriage initiatives. I strongly support the right of individual citizens to boycott any business they wish. I may not agree with some people’s views, but I believe that we need to support each other’s individual freedoms, and that is where we can all be united.
This post is absolutely brilliant. Thank you for sharing this, and for your voice of calm reason. This is really what the debate is about – it’s not about heathens vs. Christians or any denial of constitutional rights. Well said. Thank you.
Sadly this article missed completely what the debate is really all about. In fact, it specifically denies the reality of government discrimination. This is ALL about religious freedom and freedom of speech. Multiple government officials are trying to block CFA’s based on the the speech and religious views of their owner. That is pointedly and clearly anti-Constitution and illegal. That is what the appreciation day was about. Those who want to boycott the CFA as customers because of reasons like what you wrote about are well within their right to do so. In fact, it’s very American. Nothing wrong with refusing to be involved with companies you have issues with. I do the same. Any consumer can try to boycott any company they have issues with. But for government officials to try to discriminate and block companies based on speech and religion is a very attack on America and it’s founding documents. It’s rather scary, and every American (gay or straight) should stand up against such clear gov’t oppression. Did you not know about this government discrimination or did you purposefully tell people the opposite regardless of the facts? I hope you research the issue from a freedom standpoint and correct your part about government and the constitution.
This article is addressed to those undecided people who have LGBT friends. This article isn’t about what Dan Cathy should do or how he should spend his money. Nor is it about what government entities should do. It’s about what we should expect of our friends and allies and what they should expect of us.
You apparently do not understand how the Boycott works if your saying this isn’t about how Cathy should spend his money. The point of it is because the LGBT community find it wrong that he is supporting companies/entities that are anti-LGBT. By boycotting CFA your telling him, Your not spending money there ( which in turn pays him)
at which point becomes his money then he decides to spend that money else where on things he believes in and supports……
Now either I I am missing the point in that statement or your failing to see that by boycotting your deciding to take a direct non-verbal action to tell someone what they are doing is wrong?
What a strange pretzel of logic. Do you not see the distinction between a person’s legal right to free speech (which is not in question) and another person’s right to protest that speech?
If I give you a dollar and you spend it on beer, then ask me for another dollar, I won’t give you another dollar. I’m not trying to deny you your legal right to drink beer (assuming you are over 21). I’m denying you the opportunity to drink beer with MY MONEY.
Clear now?
i just had this debate w/ family yesterday. so i will glady repost in hopes they read your perfect words.
Absolutely wonderful.
A lot of folks on my flist have been posting this. And I agree with most of it. But he lost me on #4 – Because here’s the thing, Wayne: Long before FB, there were plenty of people, and corporations, and governments that were openly anti-black. There were plenty of people, of all genders and sexual persuasions, that were “not bigoted”, but did not think minorities were entitled to the same rights and freedoms of citizenry they enjoyed ( including the president that “freed” us). And TODAY? There are still governments that makes racism easy to endorse, that provide financial incentive for marginalizing, profiling and incarcerating minorities at an internationally unprecedented rate, that do not penalize the rape, abuse or murder of minorities, that are even NOW actively seeking to repress minority voting rights and ultimately revoke Affirmative Action and Civil Rights Law. This includes members of your OWN community – because while being Pro-LBGT and Pro-Christian are not mutually exclusive, neither is being LBGT and non-White.
So, Wayne, are you doing the same for them? Are you aware their problems even exist? Or are you using our plight, our struggle, our ongoing fights, as a quick and potent point of reference that exploits our pain for your purpose? We don’t have to *imagine* what would happen – we are living it. And when we raise our voices, we are told to get over it, the world is post-racial ( we have a black president!), that we are race baiters, race pimps, reverse racists, or that we are divisive, there is no race but the HUMAN race and we all need to work together now for the ” bigger picture”.
I support you. I support this fight. I wish you and your partner of 18 years every happiness and every right. But I humbly request that you recognize and honor my history before you draw parallels to it.
I do recognize and honor your history. I do not believe the myth of a post-racial society. I admit I probably don’t know every injustice you face today, but I fight where I know to fight with both my pocketbook and my prayers. I am indeed aware that the problems exist and I would never minimize your oppression as some people minimize mine.
I have no intention of equating the injustice I face with the injustice you face. The example I used was not to parallel, but to provide turnabout for specific friends, who needed to walk in my shoes for a moment. Please don’t read it as a flippant use of your history. Read it as a promise: If I know about overt racial injustice, I’ll fight it as best I can.
Lou, I love it… Couldn’t have said it better myself! Actually that is exactly what I was trying to say. LOVE LOVE LOVE Thats what it is all about!
I nearly gave myself a stroke yesterday watching friend after friend post photos of themselves eating at CFA. I had to log off and stay off for my own well being. I think that most people THOUGHT that they were standing up for freedom of speech and/or religion. I makes me so upset that they are not willing to see the bigger picture as you pointed out in this article. I am a straight, married, stay at home mom to 4 kids from West Virginia-I am behind LGBT equal rights 100%!!! I am teaching my kids to love and respect everyone. Hopefully, the next generation will be a little better.
Your problem is not with Chik-Fil-A. Your problem is with the laws of the states and other countries. Do you give money to groups that support gay and lesbians? You are entitled to that. Where Mr. Cathay gives his money is his right. Don’t go to CFA. I doubt you did before all of this. Your problem should not with an individual business owner but with the laws you say don’t allow you a lawful marriage with your partner. Boycott your congressmen, state representatives and other elected officials who have the right to create bills and pass laws.
Lovely, well-written post. I too am so tired of people saying freedom of speech like that gives that hater carte blanche. Hate is hate and should not be tolerated.
Yesterday, after driving by a CFA my daughter called me to tell me how ridiculous the line was … she was annoyed at how many people had gathered for “free crap.” When I explained to her that there was no free crap and instead they were showing support for the company because it had been vilified in the social media for being discriminatory she was flabbergasted. She said, “what?! you mean all these people are here saying they support those values?” I replied in the affirmative, and suddenly she was no longer irritated, but outraged. She started shouting out on FB and couldn’t stop discussing the issue over dinner. It was in this moment I saw a real passion in my daughter for the first time in her young adulthood. She announced that she needs to pay more attention, to society, to politics. She announced she wants to DO something. I believe she will, and I couldn’t be more proud. Your words here are similar to those we shared during that dinner. They are exactly the issue at hand. I wish more people “got it.”
thanks for sharing your thoughts, wonderfully written!
Thanks for this post, it really puts everything into perspective.
And Lou, I love you and your message. Thanks for proving that there are thinking, loving Christians out there with open minds about this issue. You guys get out-shouted by the batshit crazy right-wingers far too often.
Just wanted to say thank you. This piece is beautifully written and heartfelt – but beyond that, it is a calm, honest, and straightforward look at the issue. Very diplomatic.
This post ended my debate with Chick’s and all of those who support it. The content of this article sums up my exact thoughts and views.
Your post should be a read in every church and public school.
Thanks,
Barry
Wayne, I found your website through my friend Jennifer Price’s facebook page. Thank you for writing this. I have shared your blog with my Facebook friends and they have shared it with others. I have family & friends who are gay and it breaks my heart that they are discriminated against and not given the same priviledges that straight people are. You’re completely right, people need to step back and think about how they would feel if the rolls were reversed and Chic-fil-A was supporting organizations that discriminated against them. I bet for damn sure, they would feel differently & wouldn’t be spending their money to support the company.
We are all different in our own way, that’s what makes us individuals – it’s time for us to stop waisting so much energy hating our differences and spending more time embracing them.
I’ve only eaten at Chic-Fil-A one time and actually did enjoy their food. But, I will NEVER eat there again.
Thank you for this.
Wayne – thank you for that post. I read every word. I am a married white heterosexual male who is Catholic – just so you know my basis. Although we probably disagree on lots of topics and have differing world views, I really only really wanted to make a comment about your overall premiss of fighting back against being wronged.
Just some background first – I am not homophobic in terms of being afraid or hating someone who is gay. I stick with Catholic teaching that God gave us the gift of sex for procreation and unitive nature – to be shared between a husband and wife. Using it outside of that is sinful. Now – that includes a huge list of things beyond a homosexual relationship – adultery, fornication, pornography, etc. etc. Have I committed some of these sins? YES! Have millions of others? YES! We all sin and this just happens to be a big category. I view a person in an adulterous relationship the same as a person in a homosexual relationship. I don’t hate them, I just don’t agree with what they are doing. So, if we all commit sins and most commit some type of sexual sin does it then make it OK? No, I think the truth is the truth regardless of how we think or behave. Now, as far as same sex attraction and how someone is supposed to deal with that and maintain a right relationship with God? Wow, now that is tough. A huge cross to bear. I suspect there are others that might match it but I can’t think of them. Without knowing I guess someone could be born with a propensity to lie or cheat or steal or even with some sick sexual taste, and going through life either not doing those things or at least trying to not do those things is a big cross to bear too. Still, I think a same sex attraction has to be at the top of the list (I can only relate by trying to imagine being celibate with opposite sex attraction that I have). There have been many who have accomplished this though and have been very happy people, which to me is maybe the greatest mystery of the Christian faith. Suffering for HIM can bring great joy. Go figure.
Yes, I digress from my original point. The fighting back point. Irregardless of our differing opinions, you say you will fight back because you are being wronged. I would say from a Christian perspective that is not the right approach. By fighting back, I mean, to be malicious in any way (huge caveat here – I suspect how you plan to fight back does not qualify as malicious toward someone else – but I think there are those that would and do). Because Christ calls us to forgive by stopping the anger. Stopping the back and forth fighting. It is an endless back and forth – think of Israel and Palestine – endless. Think of Christ. He never fought back. He just took it. He forgave by refusing to retaliate. Cost him his life – they thought. Really, it is what gave us all a chance at life.
Not to say we should not discuss and debate – we should always do that. I just think we need to be careful about what we think the overall intent of the other is. I really have no idea who the chicken guy is or what his belief system is, but I don’t think (I could be wrong) he really would want you to be in prison or killed, and I know you don’t say that, but it is sort or implied. You also said you would join any fight in reverse where someone was being wronged. Ironically, we have the HHS mandate battle going on right now forcing religious institutions to pay for things against their beliefs. I suspect you would not be interested in joining that cause, but even if you are on the opposite side of the issue, the premiss is the same. Bully pushing the smaller kid around. Even bigger bully too – our own government.
Sorry for being so long winded. Not a good enough writer to get my points across more succinct. Blessings to you. – Joe.
That was beautifully written. Thank you for putting it so eloquently. I don’t know you, but I still stand with you. CFA will never get a penny of my money.
Beautifully put. I’ve hesitated on getting into the fray of this one, but your words were so simple and concise that I have re-posted on my own FB page as MY only comment on the matter. Thank you for helping me put this into words that can now (hopefully) be understood by ALL my friends and family.
Wonderful post….shared it with everyone. I stand up for you, my family and my friends. I picked my side long ago.
Very well said!
very interesting article for read, i like it.http://www.ecadastro.com.br
Thanks so much for writing this, I’ve posted to FB.
do you own an iphone
The most cogent, reasoned, well-written response I’ve seen on this whole issue. Sometimes people get caught up in the furor for the sake of advancing an agenda – whether left or right – without stopping to think that there are actual human beings’ lives and well-being at stake.
As the mother of a gay man, I’m happy for any and all support, but would like for people to stop seeing this as a political issue and begin to see it as a human rights issue. Your words help to open eyes on both sides of the issue. Thank you so very much!
This is well written, however you like many are missing the point of thousands who supported CFA yesterday. I don’t support what Dan Cathy said, I don’t go to CFA to give money to them to support what he does with it and I don’t go around calling people ridiculous names because they have a closed mind on the issue. I went there to support ones opinion on any issue no matter how hurtful or illogical it may seem. If our purchasing of a product from a company directly forced an opinion on us, we wouldnt buy anything. I couldn’t care less how Dan wants to spend his money, because that is his right but because I gave him money by purchasing a product doesn’t imply any social or political stance be me or anyone else. There are a large number of companies that donate money to organizations that don’t support the ideals of their clientele but because they don’t physically come out and say it we don’t boycott them or call the patrons of them detrimental names.
A person has the right to be gay, straight. bi or different in anyway but the “others” have the same right to hold an opinion that doesn’t support that difference. Whether that makes them right, small, different themselves, irrational, wrong, hurtful or closed minded they still have the right to hold that opinion and take the steps to show it.
thanks for the article.http://www.acertemail.com
it was nice reading this post.http://www.boliche.com.br/email.htm
We are not currently facebook friends nor have we ever met but after reading your post I wish you were my friend. I think what you wrote was wonderful. Thank you for sharing this post.
https://www.facebook.com/The.Mystress.Clayton
Very well done – eloquent and graceful in delivery without any vitriol – and I would like to say that it has been my experience (56 years) that Christians (generally speaking) use their book (often unread but memorized in bits and pieces) and their doctrine to support so many of their own contradictions… (shouldn’t be surprising since the religion as we now know it, was created by men who had their own personal agenda to accomplish during the meet-up at Nicea to write the new testament – that’s right – THEY wrote it… (of course – inspired by god… but whose god?)
I am not gay but I support my gay friends… why? Certainly not BECAUSE they are gay – it is because they are HUMAN BEINGS who just happen to be put into a box named gay to separate them from the rest of the world that is not.
You failed to mention that many of those in power to create the anti-gay laws ARE GAY! Congress is full of them! What I oppose is the hiding behind morality and doing nothing to support who you are or what you are (Gnostic – you are who you are; you are what you are). Hypocrites are an abomination to themselves. I say – FLAMING GAY! If I had the money that Chik-Fil-A has – I would adopt all of you and we’d live peacefully on our own little island.
Of course, we will have our own military and it will be the best dressed military ever – and – our motto will be – hell hath no fury like effervescent sparklers when pushed into an arsenal of TNT!
“No one is arguing that Chik-fil-A CEO Dan Cathy should be put in prison, or silenced, or censored by the government. ” That is my biggest issue with this, when government officials or political people get involved, and want to suppress someone who stated their beliefs it turns into a free speech issue. I am all for same sex marriage. But I am not for people being suppressed because they state their views on certain issues.
So why aren’t people protesting the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation?
Why are we just hearing about this now when it has been going on for years?
The message is getting lost in a free speech discussion. Go talk to everyone in line at Chick-fil-A. No one knows anything about FRC and M&FF. They think it’s a free speech issue.
Maybe someone needs to stop coming out against Chick-fil-A and start coming out against those organizations?
Many of us have been, Michael. But they simply don’t have the mainstream credibility that a restaurant has. Our message is “getting lost” because we don’t have a news network or a Mike Huckabee to reframe the issue for millions of TV viewers.
Well done. Thanks for taking the time to write this. This “debate” hurts my heart so much. I pray that love and goodness will prevail.
I came here from a friend sharing this on Facebook, and I just shared it too. This part: “This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t” is perfectly phrased and is relevant to the entire political dialogue in this country on GLBT rights, not just the Chick-Fil-A thing. I am straight but many of my friends are gay or bi, including all my roommates, and it pisses me off so much when they have to hide who they are and who they love. And then the straight friends who hem and haw and say “Well, both sides have their own opinions and you have to respect their right to their beliefs” and I’m like NO. YOU DON’T. You don’t have to respect the belief that some people don’t deserve rights, that is a stupid, hateful belief that doesn’t deserve respect.
Another well written stance: http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwp.me%2Fp2DGvl-4&h=RAQERwsY7AQFx8bJvvW69OyOtVWefsqayNFdNou7q0BfkZg&enc=AZPF-0ldNykIyJGdV03Hy2Tmy6JVJHwTDMqhjDDOjfwkkNVEGHukX2ZtZPzkSTbmjGo9VpZZNwgthEIxAIqf8yl3
I don’t know you, but I will do this for you. If only everyone would just stand up for one another, we wouldn’t even have to have this horrible conversation. I hope in your lifetime that you have all the freedom and respect you absolutely deserve. I won’t turn the other cheek today, I will stand with you.
Very informative, thank you. So much I was not aware of.
Your points are very valid. However, there are some flaws….
1. CFA also donates to groups that are opposed to criminalization of homosexuality, but you fail to mention that.
2. Many Christians do believe that homosexuality is a sin, as they do divorce, adultry, stealing, cheating and many other things. That does not preclude people from being a Christian or being a member of a church. If people didn’t sin, Jesus would not have had to die to forgive sins.
3. Those countries that say homosexuality is illegal and then proceed to murder people who are homosexual, those are the countries that produce our oil, which makes all of our gasoline and plastic products. Donating money to charities that support family values is one thing. Murdering people is another. Do you not buy gasoline or plastic products? You might want to investigate where Exxon, Chevron and Shell are donating all of there money. Either way, when you buy these products, you’re supporting Iraq and Iran who do far more hateful and harmful things than CFA.
I hope you don’t think I’m trying to be rude or hateful or mean. But the world just isn’t black and white. As a Christian, I don’t hate homosexuals but I don’t agree with it either. I also think divorce is wrong along with many other things. It doesn’t mean I hate people who participate in those activities though.
I believe that we were all born sinners – whether that means we have a tendency for lust/cheating/pre-marital sex, stealing, homosexuality or anything else. We don’t always act on it though.
Okay, I’ll let all the hateful comments toward me begin!!!!
Yes, yes, yes! I couldn’t agree more. Sometimes our inaction can define us more than our actions.
i am impressed by your work.http://www.ecadastro.com.br
It’s never going to be the right thing to go against God’s commands. I have several gay friends and I love them dearly. I have a son who uses drugs and I love him dearly. Why is it such a problem because I support marriage between a man and woman, as God commanded. People need to stop picking apart the Bible; that’s called legalism. Love one another and stop being so self-absorbed.
Please direct me to the place where God commands marriage between one man and one woman.
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman, ‘ for she was taken out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:22-24
Proverbs 5:18-19
May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer– may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.
Proverbs 12:4
A wife of noble character is her husband’s crown, but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones.
Proverbs 18:22
He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.
Proverbs 19:14
Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.
Deuteronomy 24:5
If a man has recently married, he must not be sent to war or have any other duty laid on him. For one year he is to be free to stay at home and bring happiness to the wife he has married.
1 Corinthians 7:1-16
Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
Mark 10:6-9
“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
Just wanted to throw this out there since you asked to prove that marriage by biblical sense is between a man and woman only! My Uncle is gay and he is married….. I love him and my other Uncle…. But this is just an answer to your question so dont try and bash me in any way! For Christians these are why they feel the way they do….
Too easy:
Gen 2:24 “man…joined to his wife”
Prov 12:4 “A worthy wife is her husband’s joy and crown”
Prov 18″22 “The man who finds a wife”
Pr 30:19 “how a man loves a woman”
Deut 24:5 “A newly married man…to the wife he has married”
Matt 19:4-5 “Jesus replied…’a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife’”
1 Cor 7:2 “each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband”
Eph 5:22-23 “wives submit to your husbands”
Col 3:18,19 “wives submit to your husbands…husbands must love your wives”
Mark 10:6-9 “But God’s plan was seen from the beginning of creation, for ‘He made them male and female.’ This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’ Since they are no longer two but one, let no one seperate them, for God has joined them together.”
Why don’t you show where the Bible commands marriage to between two people of the same sex. How about, where the Bible even allows it?
A handful of verses pulled out of context does not make a Biblical argument any more than a handful of flour makes a cake. All you have proven was that, in ancient Mesopotamia, people got married. You’re welcome to try again, but you’re going to have to do a whole lot better than that.
This post is made of awesome. I’ve tried to say much the same thing with less than half the success. I’ll be excerpting and linking on my blog later today. Thank you. Very, very well done.
The everyday “free speech” and “religious freedom” Chick-Fil-A (-conned) supporters should take to heart the part of this article starting with “So here goes.” I’ll bet the majority of them aren’t even aware of these facts; they’re too busy trying to live their fast-paced ordinary lives.
So I’m afraid that these clueless well-meaning believers of “traditional marriage” and “family values” ~ the very people whose eyes would be opened by reading this ~ will never get past the headline and picture of the gay couple before getting squicked out and clicking away. And that’s sad.
Thank you for posting this. My brother sent me this. His son is gay. His wife is a pastor. I used to feel differently but my children have told me that being gay is not a choice but it is genetic. I don’t think people choose to be gay, they ARE gay. I have another gay friend who really wants to be straight, to get married, and have kids. But he cannot deny that he is gay. I did not go to Chik-Fil-A yesterday although I know many that did. I thought this was about the First Amendment and I do support Mr. Cathey’s right to say his beliefs but I had no idea he gave money to these causes. I don’t boycott Home Depot because of their donation to gay causes and don’t know if I will boycott Chik-Fil-A but this has given me much to think about! I do think Jesus would be tolerant and that He loved everyone, no matter what their sin or past activities. I too believe that the word translated as homosexuality in the Bible is speaking of the pagan worship and basically means child molestation. We can all agree that it is a terrible thing.
I support your right to be with the person you love and would certainly protect you from a bully but had not thought of this in that way! Very well written post!
Love this. Love love LOVE this. Beautifully written and well thought through. Thank you for speaking so eloquently on this topic. I have ONE request: I’d love to see an addendum to this post addressing the charge that we are hypocrites because we boycott Chick-Fil-A, yet still buy gas for our cars (the logic being OPEC is homophobic). That’s one aspect of this debate that seems to keep cropping up. I’d love to see that as part of this beautiful response (although its absence makes this post no less brilliant!!).
I agree with every point made here, and I love the pictures of you and your partner. But mostly, I laughed quite a bit at Chick Fellatio. You rock!
Let me start wit I agree with you & am no longer going to grace that establishment with my presence. I was bouncing around on the internet last night while bored at work & find it interesting to read your comments after reading this quote last night, “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maitain their neutrality.”–Dante Aligheri, Inferno. I will say though you might not care for this next part referencing your comment in #3 paragraph 2 where you dicuss Christians behaving in ways they shouldn’t & being “accepted” by the church& vey little to combat them. This is in my opinion a bad example to site because while there may not be funding to an orginization to punish the horny bumping & grinding they do openly chastise them in church, they do make statements that divorce is wrong, and that no you are not suppose to do drugs. The church & its congrigation expect a person to work on changing & helps with classes & counsiling to change. Now if a person always struggles then they try to show support & empathy. For gay & lesbian anything it is a bad example because you don’t want anyone telling you are bad & need to change but just accepting it as part of the human condition and a struggle. Am i correct in this? Thats why I think siting those Christian offenses that way doesn’t pose the best arrgument. Because those other things hurt people & are expected to be understood as wrong, stopped, or at least worked on being changed. A persons relationship same sex or not should be loving supportive and wonderful none of that is wrong therefore shouldn’t need changing.
I am really peeved by the assumption that all Christians, or at least good Christians, are anti-gay rights. I live in the Bible Belt and the thing is about to choke me! It is very difficult in this area for Christians to come out, no pun intended, and say, “I support gay rights. I support equality. This is not love. This is ridiculous.” God help us all and God bless you on your journey.
Best post. ever. (ok, on this issue, anyway!)
Very eloquent. I have dealt with many people regarding this issue who simply cannot or will not see the broader implications you have stated so well here, and have been very frustrated. I am glad to have this to help.
Opening paragraph: “From now own…” Correct the typo so it doesn’t cheapen the strength of the piece.
If we were meant to be gay would we not all be by the same gender? So what are these other 9 countries I would rather live their in a more just countries then see you fags take over America.
Not so sure Jesus would be that forgiving. He was forgiving up to a point. That’s the problem. Too many people wondering what Jesus would do and not enough people taking charge of their own lives and simply doing what is humane. The humane thing is to simply live and let live. Love and let love.
It is interesting to see how many professed Christians claim that Jesus would be for homosexuality, when it is also a held belief that Jesus is God. I think we’re all aware of what happened with sodom and gomorrah. Regardless, here are some biblical passages for you, sir:
Aside from the Creation account which asserts that man (and woman) were made in the image and likeness of god, there is a clear complementarity of the two bodies and a pro-creative purpose to their union. They are even commanded to be fruitful and multiply. Also, there’s the verse of “Therefore, a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife and they become one flesh”
This is reaffirmed by Christ himself in the New Testament in Matthew 19:3-7….”for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one. So they are no longer two, but one. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.”
Read your Bible, please. If you come to my site and say “Sodom” to me, you have absolutely no credibility.
Ezekiel 16:49
I presume you affiliate yourself with the Left side of the political spectrum (the Left / Right “divide” is a false dichotomy set up by corrupt politicians and their handlers – but that is another topic). You assert your position is not an attack on Chik-fil-A CEO Dan Cathy.
You assert in 29 states you can be fired for being gay. That is a violation of the EEO. Your sources please?
You state 75 countries in the world, being gay is illegal or is punishable by death. How many of those countries are ruled by Muslims and Sharia law? If I criticize or “insult” the Muslim faith, what would the reaction be?
Chick-Fil-A has given roughly $5M (not even a drop in the global bucket) to these organizations which support the above. Why are you not going directly after those countries and organizations?
You go on with a well written article… I see two components to this — political and religious. On the political side, states tried referendums and failed to allow gay marriage. Good, bad or indifferent the people have spoken. If I am not mistaken, you can set up legal documents to do every legal aspect of a marriage between two people but you cannot use the name marriage. You assertions about being fired for being “gay” — I want sources and presumably the results of the lawsuits. Many countries ARE run by people like Muslims — but if I slam the Muslims about it I am accused of hate speech. Isn’t that messed up?
On the religious side of things. 1. I am a sinner. 2. God loves all of us. 3. God hates Sin.
#1 This really isn’t the “big divide” in our country. It is only the biggest issue in your life. There are thousands of people that don’t have money to eat, that are upside down on their mortgages and facing foreclosure, have lost their jobs, or have terminal illnesses that would love to have your problem of not being able to have a stupid piece of paper that says you’ve entered a legal contract. Did you know in my state, I could be fired for anything? I could be fired because my boss doesn’t like the shoes I wore today or because I had a doctor’s appointment. You probably live in a similar right to work state. It has nothing to do with your sexual orientation, but you are making it all about your one issue.
I think your article missed the mark.
It’s not even the biggest issue in my life, actually, Sam. But it’s AN issue. I’m not doing a single thing to make your life harder or set you apart from others. The fact that you can be fired for wearing the wrong shoes sucks, but doesn’t single you out and put you into a separate legal category because of your sexual preference.
And, just to be clear: it’s absolutely okay for me (and anyone) to take a stand about issues that are important to me. I have that privilege as much as you do. If you decide to work against your state’s employment laws, I won’t send you discouraging remarks, okay?
What an articulate and persuasive case you make for doing the right thing. This is the best opinion I’ve read on the subject yet. Thank you, and well done!
BRILLIANT! LOVING! HONEST! May we all continue to work towards peace and understanding!
xoxo
Thank you for posting this article! More people need to read this.
Very well written. If you could actually “site” your claims that chick fil a supports the groups you claim it does and that those groups help fund the atrocities you claim they do, i as a Christian, who at this point supports CFA and Mr. Cathy would not only withdraw my support of the afore mentioned i would personally join your fight PUBLICLY against them. Thank you.
http://www.owldolatrous.com/?page_id=322
[...] read this link. As soon as you click on it, some of you will be annoyed with the title, I beg of you to get past [...]
I loved this post. I hate that there is a need for it, but this is the most articulate, well reasoned and passionate article I have read on the subject. I wish you and Cody all the best and hope that one day this whole discussion is just a reflection on how far we’ve come, not a struggle anymore.
So well stated. I wish my friends who posted pictures as they waited in lines at Chick-fil-A yesterday would take the time to read it. To simply categorize this whole mess as freedom of religion is to totally miss the point, as you so eloquently explain.
I just want to let you know that the Chick-fil-A near me has spoken out AGAINST the actions of the owner and is sponsoring the gay pride parade in Nashua, NH. So proud of him. Check it out at http://www.rawstory.com.
This was beautifully put. Thank you so much for saying what so many of us have been trying to explain.
@ Cindy -you said in part ….”Love one another and stop being so self-absorbed.”
You have a gay son that you love. If your gay son lived in a country where being gay was illegal, you may not have him around for very long TO love.
The ones being ‘self-absorbed’ are the ones trying to take away the rights of ALL gay people.
@ Cindy. sorry, meant to say that you have gay friends that you love, not that you have a gay son that you love.
But, again, think about those friends being someplace where being gay is not allowed. The issue in this country is not gay/straight marriage, but HUMAN RIGHTS for all.
You know, the only thing I would add is that not only do we notice when our friends don’t stand up for us, but we also notice when they do. I know my straight friends support equal rights, but it makes me feel good each and every time they express it.
Thank you for this well written post that goes straight to the heart of the matter.
I just wanted to say thank you.
I’m from Atlanta so this issue is consistently on my TV, and yet, all the coverage seems to miss the point of situation that you’ve so elegantly highlighted. Your reasons are my reasons on why I had to stop buying from Chick-Fil-A. I grew up respecting people, among the many talking people outside their mouths about one group while embracing another, and I can’t tolerate the idea of death for simply being different (be it death through the physical, dreams, emotional, etc). Differences, to me, are embraced because I can learn so much more from other other points of view. I don’t need mine reinforced. If I am solid in my opinions, I don’t need someone to back me up. I don’t want that. I want to know more and to help.
That is why my heart hurts over this debate. Because those who ought to have equal rights can’t. Maybe being a woman in this country gives me empathy – I don’t know. I do know that I want people to live and change life’s experiences for me. I am worth more by understanding than not. By supporting the company, my ethics and values would be compromised because I would legitimately be causing harm to someone gay, among any other unknown principle, which includes may include members of my own family. As someone that wants freedom for my gender, how could I deny someone else’s rights?
VERY well said!
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal…” 200+ years and we still haven’t quite reached equality.
I was going to say something snarky about the biblical-marriage folks taking their concubines to get a chicken sandwich, but instead I will say this: there are no innocent bystanders. There’s a rabbi in my Southerntown who, during the Civil Rights movement, spoke out even when his congregation told him he shouldn’t make a shtuss, that it wasn’t our problem. He said, if it is a problem, it IS our problem. When I converted to Judaism, I insisted he be one of the three rabbis on the panel to approve (or not) my conversion, because that line of thinking is exactly why I converted at all. We’re all pretty selective about what we pay attention to in the bibles we’ve chosen. I happen to think my bible care a whole lot about justice. BTW… Chick-fil-A engages in some other forms of bullying: http://kimphillips.posterous.com/theres-no-need-to-fear
I’m usually a big fan of snark, but all I have to say is that this is wonderful. Thank you.
To begin I offer as my frame of reference the fact that I have a gay sibling, and she is in a long-term relationship. I know first hand about the ridicule, persecution, and intolerance from both strangers and even close family. Also, I am a Christian, but I would not be considered mainstream or “typical”.
I completely agree with the statements you have made in your post above. However, let me offer my primary concern in the events of the past two weeks by asking a question. Do any of those who have chosen to be outspoken, chosen to protest Chick Fil A, do they wear clothing purchased from any of the major manufacturers in our country? If so, this is the very definition of hypocrisy, because they are spending their dollars supporting oppressive sweat shop labor in all those countries where homosexuality is illegal. And this is the crux of what bothers me about the Chick Fil A fiasco.
We as people suddenly awaken form our normal slumber and get all bent ouf of shape when it convenient to take a stand. It isn’t hard to boycott a single food chain. It is hard to boycott the hundreds, if not thousands, of businesses that are also spending their money on activities which threaten our way of life.
Kudos to you for taking a stand, for not being a sheep. Shame on all of us for our collective hypocrisy.
You can’t shy away from doing anything just because it’s impossible to do everything. No one says “I can’t play Mozart, so I won’t learn Mary Had a Little Lamb.” If they did, we’d have no violinists. No, I can’t boycott everything, but taking a stand somewhere doesn’t make me a hypocrite.
Humanist! How dare you!
My sister died in 2003 of cancer. It nearly killed me. A dear friend of mine stayed with me when she could, called everyday and finally held me when I cried for the first time in 30 yrs. Where I come from crying is a sign of weakness, they still use the word nigger and queer. Yes Im a hillbilly. I was chastized for not having the same beliefs and have been called names and disowned by family for my disbeliefs. Did I mention my dear friend is a lesbian. More then her sexuality did I mention she is a human being. Its been history that man kills what he is afraid of: Indians, black people, wild animals etc. What are they so afraid of? One of their children will be gay. My friend cried. A sign of weakness, no, pain. No point in the boycot Ive never been there anyway. Im straight by the way and the sad part of that is I shouldnt have to say it. Your sexual preference should not be an adjective nor should “black person” or “fat person”. Just because I cant help myself, damn you for hurting my friend and her wife and their children.
And all of this was caused by The owner of CFA saying he was a Christian? I go to a place to eat because I like the food, and for that reason only. My do u try and get people to see things ur way. He hasn’t said “only” christians” are aloud to enter and eat here! Just made a commit like you! Don’t let people u don’t agree with get under ur skin. Take the high road, the people who choose sides are the ones picking the victom! Right? Do what u want to, u do anyway, vote to change things that u can, when u see that more people vote the issue down, well there u go. Tring to change someones mind on this, u already see is
crazy. The people who go word for word buy what the Bible. says are less than the ones who “say” they do. They do in the. open, only to look good to others, u know that.
Thank you for writing and posting this extremely thoughtful, well-reasoned and emotionally compelling piece.
Fantastic article, really. I wish everyone would read it. But I think you did yourself a huge disservice with the “fellatio” pun in the title, since it will scare off a lot of the conservatives who are really your target audience. And the cheap pun in the title really doesn’t match the thoughtful and heartfelt tone of the article.
I wish you’d change the title, or repost the article with a different title. I think you’d get more people linking to it on Facebook if you did.
Well done! Thank you for addressing the other side of the issue. I am going to send this on to those individuals who have been sending me articles on on the recent controversy. Could not have said it better myself.
I will stand up for you. Very well written and intelligent article. It’s so shocking that there are people who want to make love a crime while genocide is allowed to flourish. WTF? How did the human race get so screwed up?
Here you go owldolatrous:
http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/gay-rights
Based on what I’ve read of Jesus’ time on earth, if you were to walk up and talk to Him about this issue, I think He would’ve said the same thing he said to the woman at the well and the woman about to be stoned (among others): “go and sin no more”. Jesus was not about condemning people for their actions, but He was about teaching people to turn away from sin. In the same way, Christians shouldn’t condemn, but should love the way Christ loved.
There are a lot of things that Jesus didn’t say in the Bible. (i.e. don’t drive 100 mph on the freeway, don’t shoot heroin, don’t have an abortion) So just because He didn’t say it, and you can’t find it in the Bible, it’s ok?
Much love to you and your partner! <3 Very well written.
Well-written!!! Thank you for your insight (and I love the picture of you guys…congrats!)
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Especially helpful for me: “This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t.”
Also, from one of the comments: “I can’t imagine what it was like for my gay friends to see [the line] as they drove by on their way to work or school.”
I felt yesterday much the same way I felt the day Amendment One passed in NC (where I live)… like I’d been punched in the stomach.
Someone in the comments said we have a dog in the fight… actually, it’s worse than that. We are in the crosshairs of this fight. Big difference. And for those who do believe that God finds same-gender love an abomination… well, even if you are right in your interpretation of those scriptures, I sure don’t remember reading anywhere that God doesn’t want you doing business with heretics. (Isn’t that the motive behind the claim of conservative christians who want legal protection against being forced to do business with gays, bake cake for gay weddings, etc.?)
I’m meditating a lot these days on all the rich and surprising meaning there may be in the teaching to “turn the other cheek” …
I see Chick-fil-A becoming more and more a first amendment issue where local government officials are being selectively punitive to coerce the citizenry to their politically correct views. The abridgement of freedom of speech is a far more serious problem than Cathy’s religious zealotry. When freedom of speech disappears there is no recourse against tyranny.
Quoted from above article: “All your life, you’re told to stand up to bullies, but when WE do it, we’re told WE are the ones being intolerant? Well, okay. Yes. I refuse to tolerate getting my ass kicked. “Guilty as charged.”
But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame”.
From one Bullied “Queer” kid to another(It sounds like)growing up in an intolerant, small. Baptist town; all you so called “Christians”, get out of the way. I say again, Get out of the way!!!!!
Mr CFA and those like him only serve to support those who would have us disappear and be killed. Bottom line. I challenge those who have commented as “loving the sinner, not the sin”, to think about fear of harm and death for being who you are.
Just some of my thoughts.
Thank you! You have put into words what I have been trying to express to people! This whole thing is just ridiculous and what I find even more upsetting is that people don’t even consider what they are supporting. What gives any of us the right to tell someone that they are wrong for who they love? I’ll support your right to your beliefs, but when your beliefs hinder the right of others, I cannot and will not stand behind you.
Love this. Having argued myself blue in the face with people who just don’t get it, I can just forward this, or post this on Facebook. Thanks for making my job so much simpler.
I am Catholic and believe that homosexuality is not a choice. I support gay rights. Is it contradictory to be Catholic and support gay rights?
My friend is Christian and lives with her boyfriend out of wedlock.
My other friends have used contraceptive methods for years.
I only know two people who didn’t have sex before marriage. (TWO!!)
If someone wants to call me a hypocrite they maight as well call everyone else.
Beautifully eloquent piece. I will be sharing this on my FB though I may lose a few “friends”!
A very well written essay. I just have one question:
I’ve had homophobes denounce me and state that they’re boycotting me because in my writing, I’ve written many stories that present gays in a positive manner.
I’ve had gays denounce me and and state they’re boycotting me because I wrote a video game based on a book by Orson Scott Card, a noted anti-gay writer. Doesn’t matter that neither the book nor the game contained any negative portrayals; I was condemned because I had any association with him.
So having been lambasted by both sides and repeatedly victimized by boycotts, by them and many others (mostly angry conservatives who detest my liberal beliefs) I suppose my completely sincere question is: whose side would you suggest I take?
“It’s definitely strange to have days-long Facebook debates flare up everywhere over a chicken sandwich. The anger, sarcasm, and hurt feelings on display seem strange or even laughable because most people have seen Chick-Fil-A as just a restaurant with a funny ad campaign. ”
The Bible says, “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” Any company pretending to be “godly” and “Christian” sowing this much anger, hurt feelings, divisiveness and discord is not living up to Biblical principles. It is a sham.
The best thing about Chock-full-o-Hate day is that it outted all of the other bigots, like this Knoxville, TN business owner who offered his customers one year of free sandwiches at the chain to “support traditional marriage.” Well, thanks for letting me know where else to not send my business.
And here’s a news flash: “traditional” marriage, as defined in the Bible? It’s one man and dozens of women. If these people would actually read their dang Bibles that they proclaim to be supporting, they’d realize they are DOING IT WRONG.
I think your post explains the issue very well. A friend posted a side-by-side picture of people years ago protesting outside a courthouse against interracial marriage (white and black) and then the people lined up at Chic-Fil-A. My husband is black, I am white, and there’s still places we go to today, treatment we receive, looks we get, that… it’s shameful that WE still get such treatment. My sister is gay, her girlfriend is sweet and wonderful, and I would LOVE to one day attend a real wedding- in law – with benefits – that gives them the same rights I have. Because there was a time when I couldn’t have married the person I love most in all the world because of something as arbitrary as the difference in our skin. I cannot imagine daring to keep such rights away from anyone else because they share the same gender. It’s the same argument, it’s the same kind of inequality, and it’s wrong and people do need to boycott, they need to pay attention, they need to learn just what it is they’re supporting. Because it’s not free speech. They’re supporting hate.
Thank you for your post.
well written (well apart from some terrible grammar and punctuation) but the sentiments of your piece and the message you send are absolutely clear. Christians (hah what a joke) are sometimes – no, a lot of the time – more extreme than the extremist extremists (that was supposed to be done that way) and they use the bible as a right to judge and castigate others. Especially, it seems true in America. I feel sorry for them and sad at the same time too, but what scares me most is how much political power they seem to command. Anyway on a happy note – even though I find myself being homophobic sometimes – I do find it hard to see two men kissing – I for one would not ever take to judging. In my book no matter what your sexual preferences – the person is either a good person or a bad person and I will take a good gay person over a bigoted bad greedychristian any day of the week.
The most salient point in a well written piece: You’re not spending five million dollars promoting discrimination against Christians. Imagine if a rich gay human did that?
Excellent post. I’ve long said that this issue, for me, has nothing to do with sexual orientation or identification. It’s about equality. I’m a big believer in fighting for the underdog and taking care of our fellow man/woman. This is no different than anyone saying I cannot share equal rights because I’m Jewish; or for my daughter because she was born with Autism.
Plus, that food can’t be good for you.
Love it. Will share this everywhere. My son wasn’t allowed to join the Boy Scouts and I told him exactly why. I’ll also explain to anyone why I would never eat at a Chick Fil A (We don’t have any here in New York thank goodness). I would do the exact same thing if I found out a company was being bigoted against any group of people. Move here to NY state and have an awesome wedding.
“People need to stop picking apart the Bible…”
Yes, the “inerrant word of God” folks need to start first. For example, the folks who attach themselves to one part of Leviticus but not the rest, like the stuff about not eating shrimp or wearing garments woven from two types of cloth … they are picking apart the Bible.
The late Rev. William Sloane Coffin destroyed any Biblical basis for homophobia in his 1997 sermon, “Homophobia: The Last Respectable Prejudice.” Any true Christian with a heart for understanding the Scriptural arguments against homophobia should read it.
Your sentiment is beautiful. But an angry mob is not. Let us have our opinions without inciting the fury of our enemies. I have been criticized by friends because I, personally, will not spend my money on companies that I don’t support but if I am not part of the mob who wants to burn the company to the ground, I must not care enough. My opposition to the treatment of this company (and yes, we are punishing a company and all of its employees for the actions of one man’s private bank account) is one of political strategy and human understanding. This is not the way to win people over to our side. It is precisely how we motivate those most likely to hate us, who would otherwise have forgotten. We can take their money away without being bullies. People put their own foots in their mouths, we don’t have to jam the foot down their throats to make a point. Lets be civil. When two sides start fighting on the court of mutual hate, the larger side will always always always win. And we are not that side. When you have smaller numbers, your only strategy is to be the bigger person. Its not the boycott, its the nature of it that frightens me.
@Lou-That was really sweet and heroic of you. Thank you for standing up!
@Owldolatrous-I live in New York and a CFA just opened here. I have no attachment to their allegedly delicious chicken sandwich. Even if I did, giving it up wouldn’t be a problem. Your right to love the partner of your choice and your quality of life are way more important to me than any chicken sandwich!
you put into words what I have been trying to say. Thank you. Also, if you want to avoid spammers… try blaw[at]blaw[dot]com
Great, well thought-out post. I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that whether or not same sex marriage is “appropriate” is largely a religious issue, i.e. if you ask the average person who doesn’t support same sex marriage why, they will likely tell you that the Bible doesn’t condone it. Whether that’s true or not, the fact remains that it is a religion-based issue. The way I was taught in US Government 101, religious doctrine should not be legislated. Making same sex marriage illegal or, worse yet, criminal, while forcing “Christian Family Values” on people by punishing them for not complying (and yes, getting fired…or killed….is clearly a form of punishment) is clearly the legislation of religious doctrine (welcome back to the Middle Ages–any one up for a good Crusade?) Why shouldn’t same sex marriage be legalized? We’re not saying that gay couples need to get married in a Baptist church, but preventing them from forming a civil union recognized by law because it violates Christian principles is just wrong, pure and simple.
I personally didn’t realize that the Chick Fil A guy was donating the money I spend on chicken sandwiches to organizations that shove their beliefs down other peoples’ throats. Fire and brimstone, Bible-thumping, intolerant hypocrites like the ones that run the organizations you mention drove Jesus crazy in his day (Pharisees, and such), and they give real Christians a bad name. From my understanding of the media coverage (and yes, I should know not to trust them), all this clucking was over a simple statement of personal beliefs. I’m not saying he shouldn’t spend his money the way he wants but you’re right. If I found out a company was using my money to support something more universally accepted as wrong, such as, say, child slavery, I would not give them any more of my money.
For the record, I am Christian. I don’t think same sex marriage is Biblically condoned. I don’t think a lot of things we do are Biblically condoned. I could be wrong, but those are my personal beliefs. And after all, that’s why God gave us Jesus, because we all fall short of perfect in one way or another. But in the end, it’s not for us to punish, legislate or judge (what was that passage about removing the speck in your brother’s eye, but ignoring the plank in your own?) Our job, while we’re stuck in this imperfect, broken world, is to do the best we can, follow our own conscience, love God, love and have patience with each other, and dream of better days to come.
Thanks again for your post. And you do make a cute couple.
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Beautiful, eloquent, something I could never have articulated. Bravo my friend.
Thank you for writing this. Seriously, thank you.
I’m Canadian, Christian, white and straight(ish). Married to a man. Marriage equality has been achieved here, much to the dismay of the conservatives. The society did not fall (in fact, when I’m feeling cheeky, I point out that Canada’s economy is one of the only ones that didn’t get hit so badly… but I know that’s not God puppeteering the economy).
My church, the United Church of Canada, would welcome you and your partner. We would marry you if you asked. We would ordain you if you wanted to be ministers (and did all the training, etc.) God welcomes all. We try to as well.
There is no Chick-Fil-A in Canada, so I can’t be part of a boycott (I’m vegetarian anyway), and none of my American friends are on board with this crap, so all of this is pretty removed from me personally. What I want to know is how can I help?
Marriage isn’t historically between a man and one woman, Cindy. Historical context of marriage in Biblical times was between a man, many women, sometimes children, often slaves, women given as gifts to the victor in war. Marriage wasn’t even romantic until about 200 years ago…it was arranged. Socially accpetable marriage has evolved and, I pray, will continue to evolve.
Wayne.
Thank you for such a well written and reasonable piece on this ridiculous issue. I am guilty of the same outrage and passion as many of these Chick-fil-a supporters…only on the other side of the fence. Unlike you, my tolerance is lacking and I have already unsubscribed from some people (several in my own family) . I cannot believe the idiocy of it all. I cannot believe the inhumanity of people who would deny basic human rights to ANYONE…and then revel in the glory of their actions and values. It’s got to be the lowest rung on the evolutionary ladder. In my zealous antipathy, I am afraid I am becoming more like them all the time. I am developing a hatefulness and fervor towards these people that honestly hurts my heart, and makes me so sad for the state of mankind.
Thank you again…for your voice of reason and tolerance.
Thank you for this post. I am a liberal Christian and I appreciate that you eloquently and thoughtfully articulated many of the points liberal Christians have tried to communicate!
Minor point here: I recently read that Dan Cathy is the President, but not the CEO. His father is the CEO. Please feel free to screen this and not post it, but you might want to double check that. Of course, all the news outlets are calling him CEO, so … whatevs.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/five-reasons-chick-fil-a-isnt-what-you-think/politics/2012/08/01/45437
I completely agree with u. I am a lesbian and am with the most amazing woman ever and all we wanna do is be able to get married and have the same rights as straight couples. Its not like we try to push our lifestyle on anyone. We r deeply in love and just wanna be happy
I LOVE everything about this post. I am openly and unashamedly bisexual, and have always been. I chose to marry a member of the opposite sex, but I can appreciate the hardship I would be enduring had I chosen to marry a member of the same sex. I used to love Chick-Fil-A. I used to spend my money there. Oh how I adore their food. The newest controversy with them has brought to light the way they donate their money, and made it very personal to a lot of my very dear friends, and myself. People don’t understand the boycott, but they clearly haven’t done their reading. It’s not about the opinion, it’s about the oppression. I wish you and your Partner many more happy years together.
Thank you for writing such amazing and touching words!
Thank you for writing this. For so clearly and thoughtfully articulating that which seems so painfully obvious. I understand people will always have differing opinions, but I simply cannot understand not having outrage over the systematic denial of equal rights and advocating to further marginalize a group of people – a group from which so many people claim to have “friends” and “loved ones”. I guess my definiton of friendship is very different, I don’t want my friends to be regarded as second class citizens and I certainly can’t imagine actively fighting for them to be denied the rights I enjoy myself. Come to think of it, I can’t imagine doing that to someone I dislike.
Well said!!
good blog.http://www.maladiretasegmentada.com.br
Please, you don’t think this is 1st Amend issue? A public citizen states his beliefs on something and several gov’t bodies say that they are going to block him from legally opening a store. How isn’t this a 1st Amend issue? Boycot/protest it if you want, that is your RIGHT.
Slainte,
Cathal
It is amazing to me how many Christians ignore two main tenants of their faith, “judge not lest ye be judged” and “treat others how you would want to be treated.” Even if you believe that God will judge another person for their “sins”, you are told by your very prophet and savior to NOT JUDGE. You are also asked to treat others with the respect and kindness you would want, and to treat the least of your brothers and sisters how you would want to be treated. I doubt very much if many Christians want others judging who they have the right to marry.
Your number 4 is the biggest part of my problem over friends who are supporting CFA. If CFA were openly giving money to the KKK or Neo-Nazi groups, I doubt there would be a rush to support them. Why exactly is racial and religious discrimination a no-no, but homophobia is acceptable? When did it become ok to promote discrimination over what is ultimately a truly superficial issue? I don’t understand. Perhaps I don’t want to.
I wish everyone could read this… You took my exact thoughts and put it to print.. What is wrong with people? Why deny another humans happiness ? God CANNOT be happy with us!!!!!!!!!
One word. Bravo.
Add me to the pile of people who applaud this posting. The anti/pro gay, homosexual, (whichever term you prefer) has never been a debatable issue for me. I am “pro”. Simple as that. I do not seek out debate on the issue. Should someone bring up the subject I stand firm. I am a loyal person, a “true” person, and I like me. More often than not I have been for the underdog… that’s just how I am. I will (and have over the years) jumped the bully and beat the crap out of them. I am a physically strong woman which is an asset in real “bully” situations. I was not born with the character I have, it has taken work. My pro-gay rights has never been something I needed to attain, it just was. Maybe my upbringing had something to do with it. My childhood summer vacations were spent in Provincetown. I sat on the curbs eating my ice cream watching the people walk by, gay and hetero. I would love to say more but I have to go out. Send a bully my way and I will kick their ass. Love, Mary oh, and ps – I am a 52 year old woman who has, and remains, a person who is trying to become all that my God wants me to be.
I completely support Chick Fellatio. As a straight man I love it when a chick goes down on me- What? Not really about chicks giving head? Oh.
I’ve been eating Chick-Fil-A sandwiches and waffle fries since about 1979. I love them. I really hate when something I love becomes something I can’t have anymore. And not because of me heart attack in 2008. Well…
I cannot believe that it is still so acceptable today to openly hate gays. It should not be acceptable. My best hope is that CFA suffers just enough economically to be sold to Yum Brands so I can get me a sandwich again, and on a Sunday even!
Wrong, Mayors acted stupidly saying they would deny ChickFilA access to first and 13th amendment freedoms. Step 1) if @FakeDanSavage is your “tolerant” spokesperson, dump him. Step 2) Realize that marriage is not a civil right but a privileged granted under the states constitution, fight for something else for the next forty years, because Civil unions with the same benefits will come on line, but the term Marriage, won’t anytime soon. Step 3) Quite beating up Christian believers unless you are willing to beat up Muslims too. Realize the differences and who will fight for your freedoms, Christians are not your enemy, you are theirs.
To me people are people , as long as you Love the one you are with and they feel the same, you don’t hurt each other instead you stand strong for each other, then you are a very lucky person.
WOW!! Thank you for putting into words what thousands of us have been trying to for the past few weeks!! That’s all!! THANK YOU!!!
Stunning. Brilliantly written.
Maybe I am reading this wrong but I have just one question. You say “Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.” …..by boycotting Chick-fil-a and asking others to do so are you not doing the same thing to him. Are you not taking away part of his livelihood by not spending money there and urging others to do the same. Granted, this man would probably still be fine if Chick-fil-a went under but that isn’t the point. You are in a sense doing the same thing to him that he is doing to you by boycotting Chick-fil-a. I would also like to say that I don’t agree with this man’s opinion at all but I can’t intentionally hurt someone for having an opinion and will most likely continue to eat at Chick-fil-a.
Thank you so much for putting it in terms that make sense! I really think you nailed it!
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Bravo!!! Well said. Now I think we need to find out what other corporations are supporting the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundations and boycott them too.
I am hearing you. Noone should be killed/imprisoned just because they want to be happy. Will you hear me now? Im willing to bet that most of you(those who have commented on this & the author as well) have bought product that was made in said countries that would kill/imprison ppl for lifestyle that makes you happy. Walmart would be among the businesses that sale such items. They have also sent many a job to said countries. Stripping means from americans(small business) to survive. I suppose we each choose our fights. I would just like for all to get along as Jesus taught…:)
Excellent article. I would love to repost this on facebook if you change the title
Well said! I find gay people some of the most brave of all. Imagine what they have had to go through just to come out, let alone live a life with a partner in joy and love – a right every single human being is born with!! Period. We are supposed to live life in joy…so let’s do it and let everyone else do it, too!
while I absolutely love what you have to say, and I think you do so very well and eloquently, I highly highly doubt you’re reaching your intended audience. not for lack of trying- don’t get me wrong. sadly, people who are hateful and closed-minded don’t seek out the point of the perceived opposition to gain insight and perspective…which is what someone on the fence will likely get out of reading this post. anyone who is small-minded and bigoted seeks out others of their ilk because they can’t handle being challenged or opposed. to them, it’s gay people standing up for gay people…which is something they can’t relate to. (some- not all, by any means. I’m going to speak in generalities for ease) I wish there were more straight people not only aware and participating in the boycott, but willing to put themselves out there to their friends and family who don’t “get it”. there’s an amazing collection of letters to the boy scouts of america where eagle scouts are turning in their badges and medals because of the BSA’s stance on homosexuality. when the message is from straight, white christian men, it seems to have more of an impact. I say this because, at the core of the problem, straight, white christian men (who don’t understand why we’re all so upset) don’t just see a man…they see a gay man. it’s not a woman….it’s a lesbian who just hasn’t met the right man yet. they don’t see families, they see GAY families.
maybe, just maybe, seeking out and encouraging allies is the next big step. not that strides aren’t being taken, because they are. but reading the words of support for human equality from straight men telling an organization they had grown up in (boy scouts of america) that they refuse to be a member unless the policies change…it’s so huge. it’s remarkable.
as well as you’re able to put your points together, perhaps you should reach out to some of these men in hopes to team up your efforts. same message- bigger audience. greater chance of impact. because as perfectly-stated as your words are, they’re mostly being preached to the choir.
all the best, and congrats on 18 years
J
also, here is a link to the eagle scouts I mentioned
http://eaglebadges.tumblr.com/
You use words well. Thank you.
Thank you so much for posting this. I am a straight Christian woman and it sickens me to see other people that call themselves Christians spewing hate toward their fellow humans. I have many LGBT friends and I love them all and I want them all to have the same rights that I have. I think you made your point in a heartfelt and compelling way. I will definitely be sharing this!
[...] to at least give this a read, as it summarizes a lot of the arguments for why people are so upset: The Chick Fellatio: stuck in the craw | Owldolatrous Productions One representative argument: [...]
It has been said before: “Nail…meet head!” BRAVO!!
Thank you, Wayne, for this well-reasoned and wonderfully presented breakdown of the true issues behind this disappointing brouhaha. I hope you don’t mind but I’ve summarized your article on my FB feed, with a link to the full article and credit to you, of course. I’ve been torn up over the past few days seeing FB posts from family and friends in support of Chik-fil-A and have been sitting on my hands for fear of flaming them into oblivion with a string of profanity and a bunch of “unfriends.” You’ve given me a much more rational way to address the issue — and hopefully one that they’ll actually read and digest and think better next time around!
Beautifully written. I wish more people understood the nuances here: it isn’t that a corporate CEO is homophobic that I object to, and it isn’t that he felt compelled to share his homophobia publicly; it’s that he puts the resources of his corporation behind denying the civil rights of others. I have no issue with his public statements against gay marriage; I acknowledge his right to support anti-gay organizations; and honestly, I can’t possibly know or keep track of the personal beliefs of the owner or CEO of every company I do business with.
But if I know that a company is actively using its financial resources to advance discrimination – and as you point out, far worse than that, particularly in Africa – then I have to say no, I won’t do business with them. I was surprised and impressed by Mayor Mennino’s refusal to allow CFA in Boston. It’s not government censorship to refuse to trade with a company whose business practices you believe to be idiscriminatory.
It frustrates me tremendously that people see the civil rights of those who are gay as something to hold opinions on, and something to ‘agree to disagree’ about. If I said I thought that African-Americans shouldn’t be allowed to marry people from other races, or that it’s just fine to fire a black person for being black, I would be advancing an indefensible position – a position that the majority of people in this society would recognize as morally wrong, even aside from its illegality.
This is not different. I don’t care if you think homosexuality is right or wrong. I don’t care if you think gay marriage is a threat to traditional marriage, whatever the hell that could possibly mean. I don’t care if you’re racist, either; but just as your racist opinions are not defensible and should be ignored by the rest of us, so should your homophobia. You don’t get to have your personal opinions or religious doctrines take rights away from others.
I am a Christian! I am not against Gays. My uncle was gay whom I was extremely close to and loved very much and I have a gay stepson. Christians are not perfect, nor do we claim to be. A lot of the drug addicts, divorced, criminals, etc. have come to Jesus because they want to change their lives around and get a second chance. They feel they have lost all hope. God is a God of hope & second chances. He heals the broken. We all have a choice to do whatever we want. We are not the judge. God is the ultimate judge. We go on after life for eternity. A soul does not die. I choose the Christian way, you choose something different. The Bible, however says In Geneses 1:26 God said, Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” So God Created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him Male and Female He created them, then God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply” chpt 2 goes on to say “God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being”. Verse 20 says. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. Then the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
Verse 23: and Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman because she was taken out of Man.”
24: Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall be one flesh.
Just because I believe this way doesn’t mean I’m a homophobic. We have choices like I said. I choose this path, you have chosen a different path. I don’t judge you. Don’t judge me. We are in all different walks in our spiritual life. Those who do, will have to face the Judge one day. We all do. All the books of the Bible have been fulfilled except one book and that is the last book, Revelation. God said; “I am the Alpha and the Omega”, The Beginning and the End”. “All those that believe in me will have everlasting life and not perish” Something to ponder. Where do you think you came from?
I’m a God-loving Heterosexual man who was raised in a Jewish home.
First off, brilliant article! I have LGBT friends and frankly, this whole thing upsets me greatly. I have never, (and after this) will never eat at CFA, and I’m glad to know these things about corporations in America as I don’t want to fund my monies to entities that have these beliefs, and who use their power or influence to try and convince the masses that they are correct. I’m sure Dan Cathy will invite Mike Huckabee for a nice river excursion down the Mississippi on his yacht after all this is over, and no one will be the wiser or care, but I digress.
What I am most upset about goes back to the Constitution and the separation of Church and State. What happened to this? Why does it seem Church and State are more closely-tied than ever before?
Maybe this is something we need to look at as an impetus of what is and what will go on in this arena in the decades to come? Frankly, I’m sick of the apparent and obvious non-separation of these two and wish we could follow the intention of this from the beginnings of this great nation of ours. We put this in the Constitution in the First Amendment, must have been important right?
Let’s start acting like it
I realize im asking a lot for ALL to get along. I had never heard about the massacre that you mentioned. How terrible! I would like very much to see your play. Our world is far from perfect. As are we. Perfection will not be achieved until we reach eternity, I understand that. But I do believe we can all try harder to love; as Jesus loved
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To all the people complaining about the actions of the municipalities, how exactly is that different from people and/or municipalities’ elected officials acting to keep Wal-Mart out? It isn’t like you can’t criticise Chick-Fil-A for crappy unethical business practices either (seems to me that taking gay people’s money and using it to keep them as second-class citizens alone counts as a crappy unethical business practice, never mind their, say, firing a female employee of 21 years so she could be a “stay-at-home mother” and so on).
I think you need to read your post.
You are condemning them for the same thing you say you are against.
I absolutely loved this article…and the way you expressed all of my many thoughts and feelings on this topic! I loved what one person posted “Love is love”…
that’s it, pure and simple!!!!
This is fabulous. I think it’s everything many of us have been trying to say – those of us who want to speak our truths without attacking or being vicious or hateful. I wish I knew you. I would give you a hug and say thank you, from me, a heterosexual, married Catholic who wonders when so many people forgot that Jesus taught us to – above all else – love one another.
I read this wonderful post with a full heart (although I almost didn’t read it, due to the intentionally outrageous title). You have said it much better than I ever could. As one with both lesbian and gay friends, I can only thank you for your very logical and reasonable stance. I hope it actually enlightens someone.
Finally, reasonable thoughts
“So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”
—Genesis 1:27 (NKJV)
“And the LORD God said, ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.’ Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: ‘This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.’ Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
—Genesis 2:18-25 (NKJV)
And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’“
—Matthew 19:4 (NKJV)
“But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’”
—Mark 10:6 (NKJV)
When Jesus was asked questions about marriage he went straight back to the defining passages in Genesis that say that marriage is between male and female and is meant to be life long. He saw the Creation accounts in Genesis as authoritative in His day. And what is authoritative for Jesus is authoritative for Christians also. While Jesus did not specifically teach on homosexuality, His establishment of the Genesis passages as the fundamental passages on marriage (even more fundamental than the Law) leaves no doubt as to the outcome.
When God created a partner for Adam He created Eve—not another Adam. This means that perfect partnership requires some level of difference as well as a level of similarity so great that Adam could cry out loudly, ”This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh”. Sexual intimacy between a man and a woman is the normal method of male/female bonding (emotionally and physically) because it corresponds to the design of our bodies and because it is the normal means by which offspring are created.
If God had intended the human race to be fulfilled through both heterosexual and homosexual marriage, He would have designed our bodies to allow reproduction through both means and made both means of sexual intercourse healthy and natural.
This is an extremely well written article. I would like some proof, if possible, though, on the stuff I added in the following paragraph. It’s not that I don’t believe you, but I always like proof, (or at least as solid proof as you can get online). If possible, please have the proof come from independent sources. By that, I mean, not their site, and not a Gay rights site. A site that just shows facts, not necessarily opinions.
“Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.”
[...] I may express outrage. I am not the intolerant one in this scenario. There is a great post on the Owldolatrous Productions that one of my Actual Friends* posted on FB. Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running [...]
Bravo!
@Megan Harris: You missed the point. By “just standing up for what he believes”, the CEO of CFA made it clear that every purchase at CFA helps to generate profits that get used (in part) to support bigotry. So ask yourself – what kind of bigotry would you not be ok with? If CFA was supporting the Klan, would you buy one of their sandwiches? What if they supported a radical terror group? Why is it that supporting groups that attack gays is no big deal, when other forms of bigotry are not tolerated at all?
A lot of people do crazy, terrible things because they are “just standing up for what they believe”. Do I really need to make the list? let’s keep it modern: Slobodan Milosevic, Osama bin Laden, the guy who shot Gabrielle Giffords, the rioters in India that killed all those Christians, the Christians in the US that attack Muslims, etc. I wouldn’t buy a Chicken sandwich from any of them, and CFA is no different. What they believe is ugly, hateful, and bigoted. It’s not Creationism vs Evolution, it’s Gay people are people who deserve the same rights as all people vs. Gay people should be imprisoned, shamed, and treated with complete disregard for their humanity.
If you don’t feel like you need to take a side in this, then I don’t think you should keep calling yourself “pro gay” (whatever that means). Just tell people you’re “gay indifferent”, as in, you don’t get terribly upset when gay people are persecuted just for loving someone of the same gender. And enjoy those sandwiches.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. As much as the Chick-fil-A “battle” makes my brain want to explode, I absolutely appreciate you taking the time to write a rational piece on this issue.
“People with closed minds should come with closed mouths.”
-unknown
Brilliant! Love you man!
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This is AMAZING. Period. I agree 100% and I’m 100% a follower of Christ, just for the record. Well said, sir.
Wonderfully written essay (more than a blog post!). Exactly right. Change the title so more conservative folks might read it. As it is google safe search would screen it out.
To those who say it’s about government interrupting business: not true. The mayor did not ban Chick Fil A or mis-use government powers to attempt to do so.
He expressed his opinion, as mayor, that such bigotry is unwanted and encouraged them to stay out of Boston. He is a leader and he led, expressing his opinion to the CEO and apparently the owner of the real estate or franchisee.
The kind of politicians who never take a stand based on personal convictions are weasels just out to get re-elected, the Boston mayor took a stand risking votes — the mark of a great leader. He never abused government power nor attempted to do.
Imagine if the family owners were funneling money to organizations that tried to get laws passed supporting the extermination of Jews. They are as extreme and as extreme a response is needed. This is not a free speech issue at all, nor an abuse of government power issue.
BRAVO!
@Cindy – By “what God commands” you mean the Bible, right? The one that says: :However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
So you’re OK with slavery then? If you want to believe that everything in the Bible needs to be accepted as truth, then you have to believe that slavery is OK. Otherwise, you need to admit that you don’t like some things in there and you choose to ignore them. I choose to ignore the bigotry in the bible towards gays because I’m not a bigot, just like I ignore the slavery stuff because, well, I’m not a bigot.
I feel like I’ve been saying this to a lot of people recently, but it’s been true every time, and it’s true now:
You are my hero.
Excellent post. Thank you for writing it.
great post. this is summing up some of the things I have been thinking about this issue. It still astounds me that the religion of “peace and love” is the same religion guilty of so much blood, hate and biggotry (through the ages, sadly) that anyone in their right mind would consider the literal text to be anything other than fables about people in history. religious opinion aside…the fact is, some americans have more rights than other americans. some americans see fit to try to keep those right suppressed while they enjoy the very rights they seek to deny other americans… and this is constitutional how? thanks again for a great post and clearly defining the most important points if this issue. dont let the forum trolls get to you, they live in basements and rarely see daylight or have human interaction so what the hell do they know
Your essay is quite good, as a whole. But where you do miss the mark is in your paragraph about the first ammendment. You see the Constitution as a legal document. You are right, of course, but you overlook a crucial point. The Constitution is more than that. The Bill of Rights largely defines what it means to be an American. In other words, free speech is not just a law; it is a VALUE enshrined in American society. The problem with the gay postion is that it goes against a fundamental American belief. If you “declare war” on somebody for speaking his mind, you simply CANNOT be sincere about his right to believe and say whatever he pleases. The very goal of your war is to bully that other fellow into silence or perhaps into a fraudulent agreement with your own belief.
Consider profoundly hateful speech. What Chick Fil A’s Mr. Cathy actually said was not particularly outrageous–at least by the standards of current society; so, let us look at something that REALLY is outrageous. Westborough Baptist Church not only teaches that gays will be damned: it says that America will be cursed by God for tolerating gays. It proclaims this hateful message by picketing the funerals of dead soldiers whom “God killed” because of America’s sins.
If the law allowed you to do so, would you track down the members of that crazy church and ruin their businesses, get them fired from their jobs, and perhaps stir-up thugs to beat and even kill them? That would solve your problem. You wouldn’t have to see or hear Westbourough any more. But it would also prove, beyond any doubt, that your had no real commitment to, or belief in, a man’s right to speak his mind unless you happend to agree with him.
Yesterday, I read in Towlroad how some minor New York official promised not to abuse her office–legally–by persecuting Chik Fil A. But, she said she would like to drive them out of business if the law allowed. Now, how American is that?
I love your article and I think it speaks very eloquently for reason and justice. I just wish the title wasn’t so strongly in the opposite direction to where a person might not even get to the “read further” part. I’m afraid a lot of people might not get past the in-your-faceness of the title (not me). But your words are elegant and spare and I thank you for this. I’ve shared it with many friends.
Excellent essay, I agree completely.
And thanks for the reminder of the Upstairs Lounge fire. I’m old enough to remember the little media coverage of Stonewall 1969, but I don’t remember the Upstairs Lounge fire being covered nationally.
[...] you’re interested, here’s a much better perspective on the issue. VN:R_U [1.9.20_1166]Rating: 0.0/10 (0 votes cast)Related [...]
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Excellent essay – prior to reading this morning, I had some “combat on the field” with a FB “friend” – someone I had attended grammar school with many years ago – this person is now living “under a rock” somewhere in the northwest, but can still manage to try to defend the opposition, therefore being a part of the opposition – maybe the opposition is better left eating all of the CF, In and Out, etc. In this way, they will eventually succumb to heart disease, etc. enabling them to find their way off the planet making the world a better place…
So very well said.. BRAVO!
I agree with everything you’ve written, and I think it’s great that you took the time to do so.
One thing that maybe you’re not recognizing though: you’re preaching to the choir here. The folks who would benefit most from your message wouldn’t take the time to read your blog, because to them you’re a lost cause spouting lies. Christians who hate homosexuality don’t equate their prejudice to that of a white power advocate. To those who hate gays, homosexuality is a conscious lifestyle choice.
We all know that’s asinine; we are all born the way we are, be it gay, straight, bi, transgendered, etc. But to the hateful religious right, we are no more born with our sexual identity than we are born with a love for French dressing or acid jazz. To them a gay lifestyle is something that we can overcome with enough prayer and willpower. There is no distinct and blatant parallel between hating on certain nationalities with hating on gays in those people’s minds. They’re too far gone in their brainwashing and dogma to see it.
Lastly, I must admit that I’m a raging heterosexual, and I love Chick-Fil-A food. It’s my favorite fast food chain. But ever since the company’s financial support for hate groups was made public I vowed never to spend another penny in their stores. I endorse a boycott and I hope more people will accept that it is the only sane, ethical, and logical course of action.
There is a difference between boycotting a business and demanding the government shut the business down and run it out of town because you disagree with the business. That is where a large bulk of the supporter are coming from. No one should live in fear of the government shutting them down because they disagree with the government. That is what is really making this a big issue afaik. There are militant groups on both sides trying to use the government as a weapon and that is pretty damn scary.
Very well written. I enjoyed your perspective. There is absolutely no question in my mind about how Jesus taught us to love one another. To treat others as you would want to be treated.
I have a couple of questions thought:
1) Because I do not know much about the Family Research Council and The Family Foundation I would like to find out how you know that they want to make same-gender-loving behavior criminalized.
2) How do you know that CFA is helping fund their efforts?
Thanks,
Jeff
I am not gay, but I support everyone’s right to live the life they feel compelled to live. I am ashamed of my “christian” brothers and sisters who feel they have the right to feel superior to a person because of their sexual orientation, they say they are “christian” but sit in judgement (in the name of God). Nobody has
the right to judge others except the man upstairs! The very people (including Cathy) who are making themselves judge and jury over others will have to answer for that one day! We are boycotting CFA, I will not support any company that I know uses our hard earned money to support groups who persecute people for any reason! I am not perfect, I don’t want people to judge me and I don’t judge others!
This is just beautifully written!! I simply cannot believe that this is still an issue in this day and age . . . since when was loving someone meant to have barriers. You look around and there is so much violence, so much hurt in the world today you would think that finding someone, anyone, who truly cares for and loves you would be all that matters.
Nice Summation. Thank You. Good luck on your play.
Thank you! You have said it for us all and done it so eloquently I can’t even imagine trying to say it any better!
“Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country.”
Your entire post depends upon the truthfulness of these two sentences. But I see no supporting evidence or argumentation for these two sentences. Can you link something?
What a wonderful article. There is no ChikfilA in my city but I sure wouldn’t be there if there was one.
I think this entire thing is awful and your article is beautiful and explains exactly what is wrong with the actions of the CEO.
Thank you for posting this.
“This isn’t simply about marriage. Shocker, right? It’s extremely frustrating that same-sex marriage is the great continental divide. People are judged according to how they stand on this issue, as if no other issue matters. Did you know that a person can be for same-sex marriage and still be homophobic? Did you know that a person can be against same-sex marriage and be gay?”
>> Yesterday was *exactly* about marriage.
The gay movement catastrophically self-destructed when it decided to go after marriage.
It forced a lot of people off the fence.
You met some of them yesterday at Chick Fil A.
You’ll hear from many more on election day.
The culture war is about marriage, and until marriage is defended, I am afraid it’s….well.
A culture war.
Only one side can win.
So beautifully stated and honest. Thank you. I posted a link on my FaceBook page in the hopes that some of my “friends” will read and reconsider their position on this issue.
In response to your point 3,
You have to understand that Christians are sinners. Yes, you see plenty of Christians doing things they shouldnt be doing and that’s because their sinners, and they mess up. You say that being gay is the only thing modern Christians won’t allow and I think you couldn’t be farther from the truth. Tune into AFA sometime and you’ll understand that isn’t true either.
Also Jesus had plenty to say about sexual behavior, and he didn’t leave anything up for interpratation. It’s black and white,
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
Romans 1:26-27 – “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Amazing post! Thank you!!
[...] “Jesus had almost nothing to say about sexual behavior of any kind. He was too busy teaching more imp…” [...]
Unless it’s illegal to fund the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation, this whole point’s moot. The target ought to be the groups, not Dan Cathy and Chick-fil-a employees caught in the crossfire. I don’t condone the actions the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation seek out, but unless their actions are illegal, they have a right to their agenda.
I’m very much in support of legalized gay marriage. In addition, I have never been to Chick-fil-a.
Thank you for writing this. It’s the first I’ve read that actually is discussing the whole issue and not just one side insulting the other. I am a Christian and am horrified when people use Christianity/God/Jesus as an excuse to be horrible, those people call themselves Christians but are in fact not. There’s a difference between making mistakes because we are all human and just being a nasty person with no remorse or even realizing that Jesus taught us to love EVERYONE regardless of anything. I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle but it is absolutely none of my business if two consenting adults want to get married. To hate someone because they live a lifestyle you don’t agree with is ridiculous. I love my gay friends, my athiest friends (yes I am friends with people who don’t believe in God), I also love my ultra conservative friends even though I don’t agree with them. (sorry if this is a little repetitive)
I would also like to apologize to all the people who have been hurt or bullied by misinformed and often times ignorant people who use God as an excuse to do evil things. God is love and He loves all of us, once people understand that, what a great world this would be.
I didn’t know about those organizations and if what you say about them is true then I agree that we shouldn’t be supporting them in anyway or form. We all need to be aware of what organizations businesses, we frequent, support.
So thank you again for such a well written post.
Have also seen comments on FB that people are sick of hearing about CFA. To which I replied “It if were your civil rights being attacked, I would stand in support of you and would never get sick of doing it.”
The CFA supports REALLY think that they are spending money in support of the bible and free speech. I wish there was a way to open their eyes, but the ones who ware the worst will not even listen to the truth.
I had many of the same thoughts as you while debating this issue on FB with friends, one of whom bailed on me because of it (because rational thinking is HARD, people). I noticed then that many of them were attempting to justify their CFA visit yesterday to protecting free speech (why not send the $6 to a free speech organization?), which lead me to conclude one response with this:
“Talk of equivalence aside, it’s the right-wing that is making the argument that this is somehow just about free speech, about the right to voice unpopular opinions. I have simply provided my argument for why I think yesterday’s action was wrong, and you’re welcome to counter it, but that doesn’t automatically make the ‘free speech’ argument correct.
In that case, all of the above is irrelevant – it’s either about free speech or it’s not. Since I doubt most of those people would defend an outspoken racist so gleefully with their money, it’s obviously NOT about free speech.
It’s about something else.
And that something else is a somewhat socially acceptable form of latent bigotry joyously taking one brief chance to display itself under the guise of patriotism.”
Thanks for your post – I don’t know you, but I stand with you and your partner!
Incredibly well written! I am boycotting CFA because I don’t want my money going to groups that are actively keeping human rights away from the people I love. I actually am glad that Mr Cathy came out and said what he said and I know where his charity donations go.
[...] so very much. Just realize, that your silence means something, too. I refer you once again to the excellent post at Owldolatrous Productions (Srsly, go read it. Then tweet it, share it, etc.). But what are you [...]
Heck. Yes. Buddy. Thank you.
I love all people, gay people included. However, to say that Christians only harp on the sin of homosexuality is ridiculous. Every other sin that you mentioned is wholly rebuked and counseled upon both in my church, and in my circle of Christian friends. I have many friends who are nonbelievers, and many friends who identify as gay, bi, etc, and I love them all the same. I may not agree with their lifestyle choices, and for that, I agree with Dan Cathy. He is not being intolerant, and honestly, he is not worried about hunting you down and making your life miserable. The Winshape Foundation is a wonderful organization, with great values. Don’t be paranoid, accept the fact that even if we think someone is wrong, that doesn’t stop us from loving them anyway.
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I salute you. This is the most articulate comment on the issue I have read to date, and I have read a ton of them.
I applaud you for your well thought out, well written, blog. Here’s the deal though, If God is God, then, He has the final say on what matters to Him. He is the one that created us and all creation we see around us. He’s “the man with the plan”. I believe from the depths of my own heart that once sin entered the world, God’s orginal plan for us, changed. I believe we are trying to hold on to “remmants” of His perfect plan for us. These things, I believe, is true.
I believe that he planned for 1 man and 1 women to become ONE.
I believe he did not want union that to EVER END. Those 2 people would make a PROMISE before Him and not break that PROMISE.
I believe that children that He would bless them with would not know or ever understand the word divorce.
I believe that the male and female that he created together would each give something special to their offspring, that is needed & perfect for THEIR emotional well being etc…
I believe that He planned for us to get along with each other and truly love each other. NO WARS between us EVER. No murder…nothing like that.
I believe that he planned for sex to be special and yes, only expressed in a commited relationship AFTER marriage. (Sex is NOT special anymore… it’s just something to do, at any given moment, for many people. Not cool because then there is need for abortions, unwanted children etc…)
I do not think he planned for mutiple sexual partners, EVER. No polygamy EVER. I know He allowed it, in the OT….
I do not think he planned for slavery in ANY form. I know He allowed that as well..
I believe we were not even supposed to have earthly kings or leaders….
I believe we were created to worship Him and Him alone.
I believe His creation should NOT have ever known sickness,physical deformities of any kind, no mental problems, NO physical death.
This list could go on and on… but I think you can understand what I’m saying here.
If you can “pull back” and look at the “plan B” as a whole, you can see where we are right now.
I will NOT tell you and your partner of 18 years that you can’t be happy with each other. I REFUSE to judge you.
If you read this and think to yourself, this chick is NUTS, that’s fine.
It’s my core belief. I don’t think we should “fight” with each other, we should respectfully disagree, if that’s the case. You won’t be standing before ME or anyone else on this planet- so in the end, it doesn’t matter what ANYONE, here, thinks is right or wrong -acceptable or NOT.
It’s funny to see the lines of people supporting this or that- holding signs saying this or that, thinking that it really matters. In the end, it’s PERSONAL to each one of us. It’s what we believe, in the depths, of our own hearts and minds, is the TRUTH. Even when a “given country” passes certain laws or NOT, that has NO IMPACT on the TRUTH because TRUTH stands in and of itself whether we believe it or NOT.
While we are briefly here, we will do “our thing” to make things, “right”, as best we know how, sometimes that is a MAJOR fail.
I wish I could write like you. You have talent!!
very well writtne one thing i would like to point out though is 5 million is one of the smallest contributions chik fila gives and thats what less then .01% of their gross profit(before pay out to share holders, donations, and such) and find me one major corporation that does give to any orginization without some flaw. also as you boycot these stors and such you are also hurting the people that work at such places this does include gay and lesbian people.
Totally disagree with this article. I will continue to go to Chick-Fil-A as I have in the past. Maybe even more so since they have fearlessly voiced their beliefs even with the homosexuals in this country trying to force their beliefs on everyone else.
This is amazing and beautifully written.
I think you make great compelling arguments. I am a very conservative Christian, yet I tend to shy away from the political bashing of Homosexuality. In the past, I may not have felt that way, due to my understanding of God and His laws, etc. More recently, I’ve grown to understand the heart of Christ and have chosen to spend my time loving and reaching out, rather than bashing or pointing fingers. I got into a pretty heated debate with another devout Christian over the boycott of Starbucks (where I’m sitting right now) sharing my view in that berating people is no way to win their hearts. And it was never Jesus’ way of making His point either. In fact He spent more time rebuking the religious elite of the time about just that-Spending their time oppressing the people rather than loving them.
Now, don’t get me wrong… like I said, I’m a conservative. So I do believe that homosexuality is not part of God’s original design and therefore has its own physical consequences. Also, again, my job is not to judge anyone EXCEPT those who would call themselves Christians. And even then, to judge is not to condemn. It is to evaluate and come beside a brother who is in sin. But far be it from me to shake the finger at an “unbeliever.” That’s not my job! So, let it be known that there is a bad representation of the Biblical Jesus all over the world, but there are a TON of those of us who would rather love those around us, regardless of their lifestyle.
But on a second note, and this is actually where we are similar, there is an ever increasing amount of bashing of Christians in this country that is beginning to limit our freedom as well. (one of those ways is freedom of speech) Now we, if we can’t afford private school, are slowly being forced to teach our children things that go against our beliefs. There are attacks on private land that have crosses erect on their property. There are people being arrested for holding bible studies in their home (yes, it’s documented). Now again, don’t get me wrong, I know that the church has brought some of this attack on themselves by the public behavior they’ve displayed through brutal campaigning, etc. We’ve created, as I said, a bad representation of Jesus. But in the same way, many in the homosexual community are saying that they’ve been given a bad name by a small few that are violently pushing back, or displaying their sexual junk on the streets. I’ve heard many gay people say “but that doesn’t represent all of us.” To which I would say “DITTO!”
The real issue that is rearing its ugly head today is that there are two very different views of what our country should look like from a “moral” standpoint and those two sides are get more and more heated. It’s becoming an all out war.
This Chick-fil-A issue is doing one thing though and that is getting everyone to think about what they believe, why they believe it and make a stance.
I appreciate you spending the time to write out your points in a less venomous way than I’ve received recently (without provocation). But I do hope that because I believe differently and would personally prefer to not mess with the constitution and just leave us all alone (both sides) that you wouldn’t think that I endorse politically mandating a government restriction on either side. “Live and let live” should by all means pertain to your ability to live and walk out your God-given free will as you choose as well as mine.
If there is a God (and there is. He’s a GOOD God) then He will have is way with us all. He has the right to do with His own creation as He chooses. (which I think was the original intent in much of the constitution)
God bless you. (and I mean that in the BEST intended manor, not to be offensive)
This is a really great article that I’d love to share, but the title is offensive. I guess I could take the time to cut and paste, but it doesn’t have the same effect as a link. Plus, I can’t include the link at all – that will just put off the people who need to read this and undermine the credibility of the author in their minds. Thanks for putting together such a well thought out summary of the issues. I wish you would reconsider posting with a different title.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! I wish more people like you populated the planet! Your good peeps!!
Thank You so much, This is so well thought out. Unfortunately the people who really need to read it will not, that makes me sad. You words are filled with respect to both sides of the arguments. The Us and Them mentally has got to stop.
Wonderful words written by someone who can directly relate to being on the receiving end of such bigotry. For those of us that have to speculate what it’s like to be ANY minority individual, let us speculate on the side of compassion. Or better yet, let us be blind. Blind to race. Blind to sexual preference. Blind to gender. Let us see human. Let us BE human.
I am a Christian. Not a God-fearing Christian (because I don’t fear love), I am a Christian who actually believes in Christ. There is no place that I can recall in the four gospels (those written about Christ’s actual life) wherein Christ expressed hatred for anyone because of their sexual preferences. In fact, the only sexual based “crime” even approached was the story of the adulterous woman. What did Christ do when told about her sin? He defended her by rebuking all of those standing in judgment around her. Christians were not allowed to be bullies when Christ was on Earth, so I find it appalling that they listen to leaders who spread hate in opposition to Christ’s teachings. Any Christian who believes they can put any teaching from the Bible above that of love is, to give them their own title, the Anti-Christ. They cannot see it because they do not believe it of themselves. Christ did not say, “Love thy neighbor that lives his life the same as though does.” He said, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” If you are INTERPRETING that statement, then you are missing the point.
May God have mercy on your soul.
I love this well written, insightful, well educated article, so much more impressive than the ridiculous posts i’ve been reading for weeks. Everyone should take a moment before putting their two cents in to this debate, or at least educate themselves on what this propaganda is funding.
I want to give you a hug, and all of you in the comments who have said such wonderful loving things. I don’t have the eloquence to say it so beautifully but I support everything you said, and I appreciate you saying it. Hearing from conservative Christians, stay at home moms in Virginia, straight, gay, young and old has restored a little of my faith in humanity. Thank you. Much love from Cleveland.
All I can really say is wow! Really really well put!
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8th Amendment: forbids the Gov from enacting laws of penalty of a cruel and unusual nature. What could be more cruel or unusual than making a law (let alone an amendment that discriminates based off of religion) that forbids two people from getting married just because they don’t met an outdated definition? Seriously. If I said we should forbid people who wear brown shoes from marrying, I’d be laughed off the planet. Yet we can say two people can’t get married because they’re the same sex? Really? oh right, god says no, according tot he bible. And we must do s the bible says. Freedom Of Religion only means we do things the bible way. It’s against FOR if we make bible lovers accept anything else. Not at all what our forefathers wanted. The Pilgrims settled in the USA because they were tired of this religious control. Whether our forefathers were christian or not, whether they based America off of christian values or not, they designed the country to allow people to believe what they wanted. Not the bible or else.
And let’s be honest. the Bible doesn’t say half the things we’re told it says. Whatever god allegedly fees about homosexual behavior (which exists in animals and insects as well as humans), it wasn’t that big a deal (depsite what we’re forced to accept). How do I know? Because there isn’t an 11th Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Be Homosexual. Know what is a real sin? Murder. Lying. Theft. Adultry. Eliminate murder, and that’s Congress. Funny how the “ultimate” sin got left off the list. Yet nobody has any Murder away Camps. Nobody’s outside the Capitol protesting allt he lies and adultry politicuans say and do. The audacity of the prideful and arrogant christians to shake their fists at god and tell him they know better about what is and isn’t a sin is mind boggling. Homosexuality yes. Murder no. For a group that fears Hell so much, they sure seem Hellbent (pun intended) of going there. Why isn’t Dan Cathy trying to cure Holmes? Guy murdered 12 people for no reason. But who cares. He can get married if he ever gets out. But Adam and Steve? MONSTERS! DESTROY! Holmes murdered and hurt many. Two guys getting married hurts nobody. Beastiality existed long before gay marriage did. Celebrity marriages are 5 hour affairs at best. Seems straight marriage has destroyed the holy institution of marriage.
So wta your precious chikin. You’re not supporting christian values. Nor Freed Of Speech. Your supporting hate, death, evilness, and deliberately sending people like Dan Cathy to Hell. Everything you claim you’re against. That’s being a lying hypocrite. And no matter how much you insist god’s wrong, it’s still a sin. With any luck, Chikins will be eating you in Hell for all eternity.
BTW how many Chik-Fil-A “supporters” ever even ate there prior to this? How many “supporters” ever even heard of it?
This was a beautiful, eloquently written post – good job!
I’m a 100% straight ally supporter of HUMAN rights. Whether LGBTQ or straight, you’re first and foremost a human being, and by virtue of that you deserve the same rights as your neighbors. I dream of the day when ALL of my friends can legally marry the person they love, and no longer have to live in fear of ridicule, ostracization, discrimination, and worse.
I began a personal boycott of CFA a year ago when I first learned of their bigoted contributions and made sure to pass the information along to my friends. I will continue to boycott this company and any others which support hate.
This is beautifully said. The very first lesson I taught my 4 year old about bullies was the importance of not being a bystander. As a mother, hell as a human, my heart breaks for all those in this country who cannot be themselves for fear of backlash, violence, and hatred. I truly hope that when my daughter is an adult, she looks back on this time period with disbelief.
I have to say, your post was well thought out and very thorough. I just wish to say I can agree with it, to a point.
The controversy should NOT be whether Chik Fila, a PRIVATELY owned company supports groups that do not agree or line up with your beliefs, or mine. IT IS about OUR freedom, including Cathys, to believe as we CHOOSE!
If we curtail Cathy, then we can curtail anyone that people feel should be – Muslims, KKK, Westboro, to name a few. THAT goes against ALL of us, as humans, as a people. We have to agree, to disagree.
I do not agree with the view many have taken against those of a same sex relationship, and as a Christian, I would stand before God, and stand my ground on those beliefs. If God says I am wrong, then He will, and I will accept my due consequence.
This has been blown WAY out of proportuion, by a select few, who desired to use it to further their own agenda. It backfored, because Chik Fila has done phenomenol business. So, from your perspective, they now have MORE money to contribute to the very organizations you wish to stop them from contributing to. Ironic isn’t it? The people who wished to damage Cathy, and stop his company from donating monies, has now quadrupled the money available, so they can give more. They have, in effect, damaged their own cause.
Had no one said anything, the interview with Cathy would have been seen by a few, and none of this would have happened, and Chik Fila would have merrily continued being a private company with its few customers. Now, they have been pushed into the limelight, received mega free advertising, and expaanded their customer base and reinforced their hold in the market.
As to asserting gay rights, there is no one in our society that hasn’t had to FIGHT for their rights. Blacks had to fight for their freedom hundreds of years ago. The children of Isreal had to fight for their freedom from Pharoah centuries ago. Women had to fight for their rights decades ago. And each of them had to face death for being who they were. In many countries Women still cannot vote, cannot speak in public, and are treated like chattle. Christians in China have to meet in secret, for fear of being put to death. Gays have to fight, and nothing worth having comes easy.
I am the child of a multi racial couple, and I was born in the early 60′s. There was a time, my parents would have been out to death, in this country, for being married, much less having children. They had to fight for their right to be married. I find it sad that gays seem to think they are any different then the rest of the world that has to fight for what they value and believe. I for one, will support them in their fight, I will encourage others to understand and change they way they view same sex couples. I also, would encourage same sex couples to keep the fight, and know that one day, they will be victorious. Nothing, absolutely nothing, that is worth anything, comes easy. Peace and love to all. God bless!
Well thought, well put, well stated, and I applaud you. I will be directing many towards your post as well. Thank you for putting it out there.
Absolutely sharing this.
Life is too short and precious to go around hating and discriminating….bravo to everything you said here. One day people will look back at all this insanity and wonder what the hell was wrong with this generation. I wish you and your partner all the happiness in the world.
Agreed. Dan Cathy is a faggot.
Thank you. I have been trying to collect all my thoughts on this issue this week and you have summed it up perfectly. I could not have said it better, thank you!
Very, Very Well put. Maybe I live under a rock but, I have never even heard of Chick-fil A until all this commotion started. Every person on this planet is a blessing from God and Has every right to be here and to be who he or she is! Nobody has the right to tell you who you should be or harm somebody because you do not understand there life chooses.
I personally think we all should Ban Chick -fil A just on the fact that there fatty deep fried food will kill all of us eventually!! I saw a post on Facebook about Mc Donalds stands behind Chick fil A and posting on one of there signs ” We Stand behind Chick fil A, Try banning Us” Well wouldn’t we all just be that more healthy It we took a stand to help support our fellow Man and women and in who they choose to LOVE!! People should be allowed to LOVE who they want to Love.
This topic is very difficult to discuss because it involves two aspects that are intertwined and not easily separated. The problem is the law. God’s and the government. Government makes laws based on what is best for a given society at a certain point in time. God’s law is timeless and universal (if you believe in the God of the Bible) Everyone accepts that where the 2 agree, there is no argument. For example, Thou shalt not murder in God’s law is also found in American law and we all agree that there should be punishment for anyone who breaks it. Where it starts to get tricky is where the 2 do not agree. The Bible says very little about recreational drug use, but it is generally accepted that Christians should not use recreational drugs. So when governments debate whether to legalize drugs or not, Christians often take the lead in opposition, but if or when the battle is lost, they don’t accept the results, they still refuse to be apart of crowd. The same is true for homosexuality. Just because it is no longer illegal, does not mean that we must accept it as an alternative lifestyle. (Now, before you go off on the “show me where it says marriage should only be between one man and one woman, or homosexuality is not forbidden,” I will tell you that I’ve read Matthew Vines entire article and am in the process of countering his points. I’d be happy to link to it once I’m done. We will assume for the moment that all Christians who oppose homosexuality are not ignorant, homophobes but that they have a legitimate and reasonable belief that the Bible does call it a sin) So, to argue that you can be both gay and Christian, would be like saying you can be both saved and a sinner. We all know we are sinners. No Christian would argue that is true. But to attempt to say that God accepts our sin or the homosexual lifestyle would be a lie. For anyone to live in sin without acknowledging it, confessing it, repenting, and at least attempting to not commit that sin again, would be to deny everything Christ taught. His teaching to “love your neighbor as yourself,” means that if you knew I was doing something that was physically or spiritually harmful, that I would want you to tell me so that I may correct it. To twist that around and say, “Leave me alone, to do what I know is wrong and I will leave you alone,” is to miss the entire purpose for His statement. You’re argument that homosexuals pose no threat to my way of life does not take into account the belief in a moral fiber necessary for civil society. Evidenced by the growing divide in our society created by this issue. One could argue that the moral breakdown of Roman life contributed to its destruction. Christians are, in fact, warned that the moral deterioration of society will come through the acceptance of sins and the lack of morality. I am certain you will not see the connection here, but it is worth noting that some of the very same advocates for acceptance of homosexuality are now turning their focus to the acceptance of pedophilia. They are attempting to first, change the name to “minor-attracted person” then they hope to remove it from the APA list of mental disorders. If that doesn’t sound familiar, it should, it’s exactly the same strategy they used to legitimize homosexuality. You may say that there is a difference in that the law protects minors, but remember, the law changes as society deems it necessary to do so, so how long will it take to make this “abomination” mainstream?
Bravo!!! Beautifully written! As a business owner, I stood up and voiced my opinions against CFA. I lost business because of it, but my beliefs come before my bottom line. And I would do it all again if it means speaking out for equality for all!
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After reading the article and reading the comments I realize that there is a distinct trend towards insulting those who disagree with you. This article starts with the basic premise of ‘if you are not with me you are against me’. This premise has been proven to be wrong for thousands of years and continues to this day, even after this article attempts to explain it away.
I would address the various points line by line but I have neither the time nor the interest. I personally do not care about gay marriage one way or the other, it is just a law and has nothing else to do with the relationship other than people being able to say they are legally married. The one benefit which it does provide is certain rights to make decisions and to property. Those are definitely items which should be handled outside of the laws of marriage through various legal documents (wills, deed, powers of attorney, etc.). Everyone, married or not, should have those documents because the law is very fickle.
But, to take the tact which this article takes is very disconcerting because it takes the tact of you either agree with me or you hate me. Well, neither for me. But, this comment will immediately result in me being called a homophobe, little slights and big insults. Which, is those posters relegating me and my opinion to that of being a second class citizen.
Sorry folks, there are extremes on both sides and this is just one on this side. Kathy is the other. I fall in the middle and think both of these extremes are stupid.
Thank you!!! As a fellow Louisianan I can say that this state would be far better off with more people like you in it.
I just want to say how deeply impressed and moved I was by your piece on the Chick-fil-A controversy and want to wish you and your partner continued happiness and good health. 18 years together! Mazel tov! I am truly impressed. By the way, I love the pics you posted with this essay. Fabulous. You both look great.
I too, have ranted about this issue on Facebook (where I find 90% of the postings lame), but I’m afraid I wasn’t as tactful as you are in your piece. Check it out. I, too, have a blog (mostly about films) that you might check out when you have nothing better to do (www.thewayiseeem.blogspot.com)
I would like very much to be Facebook friends with you. Cheers.
BobinDC
I wish everyone would read this post. Thank you !
Bravo! This is extremely insightful, well-written, and touching! I will be sharing this.
Very well written. I have never thought of it this way before, you are right! I AM a Christian, but have never had bad thoughts about gay people. I firmly believe that we are each what God made us to be. I think he makes some of us a little different to test others judegementality. I cant stand Chik-Fil-A food. We dont even have one in our town…Im glad.
Great post. But really, your descriptive post can be summarized in the following two sentences:
Chick Fil A’s policies and donations to anti-LGBT organizations, hurt your LGBT friends and family. If they are truly your friend, support your friend/family and don’t eat at Chick Fil A.
What an amazingly well written, clearly spelled out post. Most people are spouting off half-cocked (no pun intended;D) about government in their chicken, without realizing what it boils down to. When people haughtily ask me WWJD, I say he wouldn’t be eating at chick-fil-a, it isn’t kosher! Jesus was Jewish:)(so am I
).
brilliantly written. your words mirror my thoughts on this exactly.
Sorry, but Cindy is correct….and for you to say u see Christians drinking and ding drugs….First, that is extremely Judgmental and for someone who doesn’t wanna be Judged you seem to doing the most of it….and Second….why do you and Everyone think that Christians are perfect?? We are ALL “WITH” sin….that is why we put our Faith in Jesus Christ…our Savior. I don’t think anyone should be judging anyone…it is very hard not to…I pray constantly for help with it….but for someone who writes such a large Artical about people not having the right to Judge you…..your Artical is Full of Judgmental Commets.
And I could give you Many Scripture that say Marriage is between Man and Women….and even more that say Man Shall not Lie with Man…..hard to hear…Especially when I am a Gay Man!!!!!! But the Truth Hurts!!!
May you find Peace….and not so much Judgmental Anger!!!
Love Always…your Gay Brother!!! Tim!
Very well written, as many have said. Unfortunately, the absence of such well-spoken reasoning is what made so many people support CFA yesterday. In general, I oppose extremists and people who argue with loud, ugly words. And people who cry “hate” at the drop of a hat. I don’t believe that not supporting gay marriage is the same thing as opposing it, and I refute that not supporting it is tantamount to hating gays. But I see the logic in your reasoning that, in general, not protecting someone from being bullied can be a form of supporting the bully. Oftentimes, complacent is complicit. I’ll bet there would have been less support for CFA yesterday if the opposition had simply said, “Please don’t support CFA. Funds from their profits are donated to these groups (insert names, dates, amounts), which use those funds to (insert specific activities).” Calmly, matter-of-factly, dignified. Clearly, the quickest way to get people to stand up for something is to attack it. Dan Cathy didn’t attack gays specifically with his words in the interview with the Baptist Press, but he was treated as though he had. The only good that I can foresee that will come from the funds provided to the FRC & M&FF is that any hatred-promoting activities they conduct will inspire an opposition to them, causing people to stand up for gays and anyone else being discriminated against.
I read your post through my daughter’s fb page. You’ve made what is probably the most well reasoned, logical post on this subject i’ve seen anywhere. I have yet to see any post on the other side which doesn’t completely miss the point. It seems that it is OK for people of certain viewpoints to post what they want and HOW DARE anybody question or protest their POV. But if you post your views they don’t extend the same courtesy.
I am also sensitive to the racial question, being part of an interracial straight couple. Like you, orus is a relationship frowned upon in certain segments of the population. We gained our right to marry as part of the civil rights movement in the 1960s. The tide seems to be slowly turning in your favour, and i hope that one day soon you will have the same rights as we do.
IN closing let me quote the following:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness……
You may have heard of the document where this first appeared. it is called the Declaration of Independence……
I am so thankful for such a clear spoken perspective. I can see it better. As a conservative, moderate christian it was confusing to see through the lines on facebook.And highly irritating. I have some questions. Is it public knowledge about the link between the foundations and murders of homosexuals in other countries? I mean is the link direct? Where do find this information? Does Cathy purposely give money to have the homosexuals arrested? Is this agenda? Honestly, I was always under the impression that these ‘foundations’ for family were intended to help existing families, to help existing marriages get through hard times. Are you saying there is a hidden agenda? Please forgive my ignorance. I am truly just asking. It is hard because I am in a bubble- I’m a stay at home mom with three young children. This article helps expose the problems. but I have so many questions. I am all over the place, my house is too quiet. I need to check on the kids.
I love you.
As a single, 40*cough*, heterosexual woman who has had horrible, horrible luck in the romance department, I am overjoyed when ANYONE is lucky enough in life to find their person. I want those people to live their lives happy and stress-free and with all the rights and benefits that everyone should have. This is why I will not longer eat at Chik-fil-A, even though it was the one meal I got a year that I looked forward to (we don’t have them in the Pacific NW, so I only got it when I made my yearly visit to Atlanta). I donated my $6.50 yesterday to GLAAD.
Keep fighting the good fight – you’re not alone.
Thank you for making the issue a lot clearer for me. I’ve got four children (two of them teenagers) and one of my children may someday fall into the LGBT category. Today when I picked my daughter up from band practice she asked if we could pick up CFA, my reply was “no, because I love you more than chicken”.
The thing about a boycott is that it is THE crux of a unified response to egregious behaviors in a capitalistic society. Boycotting is the one reliable way that people can right the wrongs of businesses that they agree with on purely ethical terms. I’ve yet to hear how anyone can defend an organization that supports these horrific causes. One’s stance on gay marriage on a federal level is sort of irrelevant here. The fact that people will come out in droves in support of mediocre fast food, to try and defeat the boycott, just to show their support for programs that encourage murder of our sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters is just staggering and painful.
I’m an average straight white guy, but this has nothing to do with me is the thing. This is an obvious wrong in our society regardless of your politics. I can only hope that these people are ignorant at worst, and not as evil as their actions indicate.
Well written. Bravo!
except it is about 1st amendment rights. when you have mayors and aldermen saying that they won’t allow businesses due to the CEO’s privately held beliefs, it becomes an arguemnt about suppressing free speech.
Why do people feel the need to force their beliefs on others? This force-feeding goes both ways and it should stop on BOTH sides:
http://michellemalkin.com/2012/08/01/the-war-on-christian-businesses-revisited-its-not-just-chick-fil-a/
Say thank-you to the men in Washington — God knows the heavens would tremble should homos be treated like humans, but, wow, shunting popular opinion into a religious argument is enough to stir up the ignorant and superstitious….. and while people fuss about holy f-c kn chicken, jesus and homos, corporations make record profits in the worst economy since the depression. How the H does that happen?? How many billions have they managed to steal since they appointed Bush the Second???? The discussion should be about High Treason – not fast food chicken goo and people who would just like to stop being persecuted!
hey there. before i get to the meat of my comment, i’m hetero, male, and an atheist who views religious faiths as mental illnesses. i do not support cathy, FRC or M&FF.
could you provide links to back up the following section of your article?
“- Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.”
i ask because i am not very good at performing research and i wish to spread the truth of these tyrannical bigots.
This is a wonderful article, articulate, heartfelt and every word of it true. I’m just sorry that there is a need for such things to be written. I’m sorry that who you choose to love is even an issue.
I do not – nor will I ever – support Chick-Fil-A, or any other business/corporation/group etc. with such a narrow view of life, love and people.
I hope for better things ahead because surely we can’t sink any lower as a society or species than to spend our time policing who gets to fall in love with whom and still be considered a full member of society.
Interesting views. I guess all of you subscribe to the local, state and federal government having the right to disallow a business to prosper based on the COO’s personal views regarding gay rights and marraiges.
congratulations for the text.http://www.divulgaemail.com
@Cindy simple reason why it is right to go against your “God.”
Your “God” is no more real than Zeus or Set.
Can you provide evidence of FRC and M&FF actively trying for criminalization of same sex marriage. That may actually sway my opinion. My understanding is their support of what they call traditional marriage, which is their right. If that is all they are doing, they’re not doing anything wrong in my eyes. If they are pushing for criminalization of this lifestyle then I may be looking at this through different eyes.
Not a proponent of traditional marriage either, just want to make sure outrage is being directed correctly.
A beautiful post that expresses a lot of the frustrations I have felt in trying to explain why I’m so upset about CFA’s position in a much better, more organized fashion than I’ve been able to thus far. All of the things they keep saying about God says this and God says that – most of this is from the Old Testament. And Jesus clearly says that the Old Testament was the law. But that since his coming, we are now in a state of grace and the old rules no longer apply. His strongest commandment was to love one another. You can’t love someone you’re oppressing.
Again, thank you for putting this all so succinctly and clarifying what the real problem is.
I am sharing your post as soon as I hit Post Comment!
What a well thought out, deeply passionate post. Thank you
very interesting post.http://www.kitsucesso.com
[...] contretemps. To my mind it says in a few hundred words all that needs to be said about the sitch. Read it here. This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to [...]
Trying to compare another company discriminating against a race of people to the beliefs of someone that heads a company is really stretching it! What the head of Chick-Fil-A has done was state an opinion, this is how this all got started. Put aside the fact that they have donated money to some organizations you may not like, this is not how this started. This started with a comment about homosexual marriage, and was only investigated further by individuals who do not like that stance. There are many racists in this country, in this world for that matter, but trying to compare a racist to someone who does not believe in homosexual marriage is again a stretch.
This all comes down to personal belief, and I will not sit here and attack you for your piece because you believe something different, that in no way is American. Trying to rationalize that it is only takes away from our right to think differently than the next person.
Not only that, this issue could have been put to bed a long time ago. Polls have shown many times that individuals who are against attaching a marriage tag to homosexual relationships would be just fine with civil unions. I have had this discussion with many, gays and straights alike and by the end of the discussion we are always in agreement…drop the marriage BS, take the civil union, and be happy with it. if this argument was based solely on the individuals right to share a partnership with someone of the same sex and not about invading traditional marriage this conversation would have been over a decade ago. having said that, one has to wonder why the conversation has not gone from marriage between a man and a woman and a civil union for anyone else who wishes to be with their partners. Yes, there will always be those who are against anyone being together with the same sex, but at this point in America if you asked the people in many of these states about unions and not word it as marriage as many of the propositions have said, then many places will get a very different result.
But once again, I do not have to like it or even think it is right. Also, let’s not try to make this what it is not. Just because I may not like Barack Obama’s policies does not make me a racist. Just as that does not make me a racist, not believing that a man and a man or a woman and a woman should be wed does not make me homophobic or hateful.
Thanks for a well put together article that tells it like it is. As the mother of a gay son and the friend to many I have been sickened watching the whole Chic-Fil-A controversy. I have seen photos of “friends” on Facebook proudly holding up their little white bags who will tell my son to call them their “second Mama” the next time they see him. It has become a media frenzy with folks not even knowing what it’s really all about. I say to each his own. Leave politics, religion and sexual orientation out of where I choose to grab a quick bite to eat. Other chains are now jumping on the bandwagon and it looks like I’ll be eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at home from here on out. I don’t really think same-sex marriage should be any where close to the political platform. It’s supposed to be equal rights for EVERY one. If I work all my life and pay into a retirement system I should be able to sleep comfortable knowing that the person who stood by me all those years can reap the benefits should I die. Plain and simple. I don’t care who sleeps with who.
Anyone arguing that God commanded anything… I’m an atheist, your argument is already invalid. Now, do you have anything relevant to say about doing onto others as you would have done onto yourself?
Someone should broker a detente with Cathy and CFA, explaining exactly this. I wonder if they even understand what you’ve so brilliantly laid out here. It seems they don’t. The CFA argument has been flattened by Huckabee into pablum that’s more easily digested by the masses: gays hate free speech; when it’s not that at all. It’s amazing that someone who has the mental capacity to drive a car to a restaurant, read a menu, and complete a transaction with currency, can’t understand something as simple as rights and respect. Thanks for this.
By the way for reference since you asked where in the Bible it states this:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh3.htm/hom_bibh.htm
I agree with nearly everything you have written in your very articulate post. Thank you for writing it and doing so in such a way that it leaves out much of the finger-pointing, condemnation, and derisiveness that I have seen over the course of the last few days on FB. I would like to add to your comments, though. Cathy has donated millions to these groups. Individually, we do not have millions at our disposal, but collectively, we do. The average person would spend around $8 for lunch at their local Chik-fil-a. Why not take that much and donate it to the organization of their choice that works tirelessly to gain the rights guaranteed by the constitution to all people, especially LBGT, the disenfranchised. Then, I feel, we will be making an impact, putting action to our words, and supporting the kid getting beat up while stopping the bully. Boycotts and speaking out are a great start, but it does nothing to effect real change. Let’s work together to effect real change.
Wayne, there is no doubt that, just as he did with the adulteress, Christ would ask those wanting to stone a gay person “Let the one among you with no sin, cast the first stone” and surely they would all walk away…and then Christ would turn to the gay person and he would say, “Where are your accusers? Go…and sin no more”
It is not enough to say Christ would accept a gay person…surely he would.
It is that command though…”Go…and sin no more”…those five words…those five words that say “Yes you are forgiven, now turn your back on your old life, the life of sin and follow me”
I’ll agree that we Christians, we have a long way to go. Yes, we divorce, we steal, we lie….and because of these things we fail at that same command. Saying that living as a gay person (btw I agree that people are born gay, but living it is where they fail) is no worse than the sins you see committed by some Christians, does not free you. In that you would just be one more person thrown to the fire. There is no comparison of sin…all sin is evil. We all fail…we all have the opportunity to turn and walk….run…to Christ. But we have to turn to him…we have to choose. Those that have said that Christ would pull up a chair and sit with the gays, are probably right…but not because they are gay…because they are lost. Christ often spoke of being there for the poor and the sinners…but he never said he was there for the sin. He was there…and is here…to take the sin away.
He is here to say…”Go…and sin no more”
God bless…be safe
Lastly and I apologize for the spamming, I am Pagan, I’m surrounded by same-sex couples, I have nothing wrong or against what they do and they should be treated the same as everyone else. However, I also like to play Devil’s Advocate…
The KFC reversal part is the most poignant to me. Thank you for this new way of looking at it. I inserted “women” and you’re right, it made me angry.
I will start out by saying that I am a straight, white, Christian, male (cue diabolical music
jk). I have not weighed in to the CFA conversation as of yet on any social outlet, or even privately, but I think I’ve finally made a pretty good opinion on the matter. You see, I’m one of those people who gather information and then form an opinion – in the same breath, I’d like to thank you for your information provided above. So, My 2 cents? I do not think that the boycott is the answer- and not for the reasons you my suspect. I encourage/challenge you to please read my suggestions below.
I see where you are coming from – if all of this is true, then CFA needs to reconsider what organizations they donate to. I had never heard of how these groups, Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation, behaved toward gays. As far as what he does with his own personal money, I believe that is his business and no more our business than, well, how much you put in the offering plate, or give to the ASPCA- it’s his money. That is his prerogative, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t pray for a change of heart / mind about how he views these organizations. Are we sure that he knew of these practices? Considering all the good he/CFA does, and his respectful attitude to all, it seems hard to think he was willingly supporting these actions. But that is a different can of worms, so I’ll try not to detract from my point that I’m a big fan of liberty, and as an individual, we all have the liberty to do with our money as we wish- but as a COMPANY, if donations to a organization turn out to actively try to damage someone- anyone; then it should drop that sponsorship. Company identity and personal identity are two different things, as illustrated above.
My suggestion is, why not call for dropping these harmful groups as corporate sponsorships? Please remember, you are not really hurting Cathy by boycotting- you are hurting your neighbor who owns the restaurant (all locally owned and operated) – who very well may be gay, themselves. Where do store-owners factor into this boycott equation? Are they acceptable “collateral damage” in this? I sure hope not.
To go back to liberty, why not write your congressman as well – try to lobby for a vote in your state for marriage/union rights? As I’m sure you have read, the country’s attitude toward this idea has swung dramatically in the past 10-20 years. Put it to a vote. And to make it more palatable to some, change the terminology – you’d be amazed at the response to this idea if you approached this from a rights standpoint of insurance, company benefits extended to spouses, rights after death of partner, etc.- you know- the rights you want. Please don’t get caught up in terminology- The Christians, good and bad (yes, there are good and ignorant), are really only hung up on the WORD marriage. If you are willing to let them have the word, you will reap the benefits. It is a first step, not the final one. Don’t look at this as an “all-or-nothing” scenario.
In that line of thought, what place would organizations such as Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation have in the “stop gay-marriage” arena if it is voted in, state-by-state? Not much, because they would be trying to limit individual rights recognized by the law.
Do you see where I am going with this? I think we are missing the point- find the place of leverage and push. How many laws has Cathy made this year? Oh yeah, that’s right, he makes chicken sammiches and waffle frys. What influence does your congressman (or congresswoman
) have on legislature in your state? Ding, ding, ding! We have found our leverage point. Cathy has no more clout or power over legislation than an accordion has in the Olympic 200 IM swim competition.
And I suggest a state-by-state initiative because a federal bill isn’t going to work right now – those bloated a-holes in Washington don’t have the guts or competency to pass this on a federal level. The local level participation of this boycott has shown the support for the cause. My fear, which should be your fear, is that this boycott has polarized things so much that with every day it goes on, the chances of getting sympathy diminishes.
So. Who will be the bigger man (or woman) first? That is who will come out on top in the end. You will show the “other side” how accepting, loving, and open you are to their opinion and there will be no more saber rattling or beating plowshares into swords. In many of their opinions, it was their way of life that was sneered at first. Start treating the ailment, not the symptom.
Respectfully,
TD
thanks for posting, please keep doing it.http://www.boliche.com.br/email.htm
This is a beautifully written post.
Now, to all those who try to divert the discussion to one about government censorship. You have a small point, but you miss the bigger picture. Yes, I agree, government officials should NEVER try to use their position to block a business that is law-abiding from being in the area they have power over.
I seriously doubt people were there over that issue. They were there because it was their way to be anti-gay. Nothing else. They don’t give a crap about first-amendment issues. They want to make sure gay people do not have the same rights as they enjoy. They support, WITH THEIR MONEY, a bigot who supports a very hateful and deadly agenda. I’m sorry for the franchisees/employees/etc. that have nothing in common with this bigot except for the name of the business. They should probably sue him for damaging the brand they’ve paid so much money to join, assuming they didn’t know what he does with that money, if they did know and don’t care, then they’re just as guilty as he is. If these people were truly so patriotic, they’d have been protesting warrantless wiretapping, the prosecution of Bradley Manning for exposing the outright fraud of the Iraq War, and many far more serious breaches of the first amendment. But, not a peep, no, they actually agree with Cathy and his bigoted views and that’s what buying Chik-fil-a’s stuff yesterday was really all about. To pretend otherwise is to be obtuse, at best.
Cindy: it’s a scientific fact that the earth is 4.6 BILLION years old. Modern humans showed up around 200,000 years ago, after a very, very lengthy evolution. We are a type of primate, a mammal. Instead of being good at climbing trees like a chimp, or preserving water in humps like camels, or tearing up our pray with sharp claws and incisors like cats, we homo sapiens developed extremely complex, large brains. One of the side effects of these large brains is that we are able to think, speak languages, write, create art, create civilization and so forth. It’s hard for a human being to grasp the concept that we are just a higher order primate, but it’s true. If you don’t believe me, go visit a zoo sometime soon and spend some time observing the chimpanzees…who share 99.6% of our same DNA.
God is not real. It’s scary to think there’s not some imaginary being in the sky looking out for us, but it’s true. The only thing in the sky is a spectacular vista of the stars, other planets, passing asteroids and comets, other galaxies and so forth. There are billions of galaxies just like ours, each containing billions upon billions of stars. Most of the stars out there are just like our sun. They have planets around them. We have seen thousands of them with our telescopes, though our technology isn’t good enough to tell if there is other life on them. If a planet has just the right sequence of events, over millions of years, they too might have life just like Earth does, though it will likely look much different from what we know here on this planet. The universe is huge but there are rules to it, proven by science and experimentation and hypotheses and so forth. These things are called facts. Fact means it’s a rule that’s always the same, over and over, no matter what, as proven by the methodologies of science.
Do you really, honestly believe that God decided to visit us humans, who took so many years to evolve into what we are today, a mere 2,000 years ago to tell us the moral code of our beings? Did God invent us or did we invent God? The latter seems to make more sense in the grand scheme of things, don’t you think? In all the civilizations that have came and went on this planet there was a god or belief of the day that the civilization very confidently believed in. They believed in their god just as much as you believe in yours today. Yet, they came and went and their gods did too. The belief in a higher being is just another side effect of we humans having such large, complex brains. Our present day gods and beliefs will come and go, too, with time. One day our civilization will seem just as ancient to a future generation as the Babylonians seem to us today.
One can still be ethical without the bible and with a god. Hundreds of thousands of non-believers do it every day. Why spend your whole life living this way in hopes of getting something after your death that has never been proven in the history of humanity to actually exist? Why not just make the most of the life you have today? The precious time we have on this planet flies by in a blink…shouldn’t everyone get a chance to enjoy it to it’s full potential?
Wonderfully said! I’ve been trying to get others to understand this, even wrote an article for Randomology on the subject, but this was both clear and heart-felt.
Here’s my problem. When we start redefining marriage and stretching what the Bible defines as marriage, we are running down a slippery slope. By your own admission, people should be able to love and marry whomever they want. So what if I would like to marry my father? Or my daughter? Or a 10-year-old? Or what if I want to marry three men at the same time? What if I’d like to marry an animal? What if I would like to marry both a woman and a man at the same time? If two men or two women should have the right to marry, then so should everyone else in all these other scenarios. And if you disagree, should I call you a bigot?
One more perspective I would like to share:
I was raised in the Deep South. Chick-fil-a has always been known as a very “Christian” business. And until recently, a business that employed zero Blacks, Jews, Catholics etc. etc. I worked for businesses who hired consultants who followed Cathy’s Christian business principles because of his great success. In NW Georgia he has given millions and practically owns Berry College. In Rome, Georgia (my hometown) an area of less than 75,000 people, he has three chains that are thriving. His culture, his principles and his beliefs typify the Southern Evangelical belief system. It is only since his chain moved outside of these arenas that his practices have received so much as a raised eyebrow. In the Southeast, he is AVERAGE. Do you understand the impact of what I am saying? He is just an AVERAGE brother in the Lord who has prospered because God has blessed him for obeying His teachings. Mr. Cathy is deeply respected, admired, beloved and followed because of this. This is why there has been such an outcry from the South especially. The rest of the country is showing the audacity of finding fault with one of it’s great cultural contemporary Christian prophets.
And as an ex-Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian I can also share with you that this very attitude of hate and violence was what made me leave Christianity (that’s another blog). But I will also share that my flight can be summed up in the suicide of a young lesbian woman I knew who was emotionally and spiritually tortured to death by the family and “friends” she held dear. And I have a lesbian niece, and I have a gay nephew. God help anyone who hurts them!
In the final analysis this IS about being able to look your friends and family in the face and say: “Whatever is important to you, is important to me. I love you, I care about how you feel and I’ll be god-damned before I will support someone who makes you feel diminished in any way.” Period.
And if I may, another much needed perspective is the rights of municipalities to choose businesses based on community beliefs. I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico and codes here are STRICT. Paint colors, structures and types of businesses are chosen with the same care and reverence as one would choose a life mate. When Starbucks tried to build in downtown the controversy was even more vicious than if an abortion clinic was trying to build in the Vatican. Municipalities can (legally) and do (ethically) follow their own covenants and community rules. It is what makes them who/what they are!
So, I am an ex-pat just like you two, my newest compadres in the stand against stupidity, hate and destruction. God bless you. I love you and I appreciate you.
This was very well written. I really wish you’d change the name of it so that I could share it. The people who most need to read it and would be open to reading it, will not do so with this title.
Wow, thank you for reminding me why I have to continue to make a stand against this kind of situation. Complacency is too easy.
This is just another issue of dividing these “United” States. As the author mentioned, you can be against gay marriage and still support gay rights. What most seem to ignore is that when you change legal definitions, such as “marriage”, you open up to unexpected legal challenges. For example, if marriage and what “religion teaches” is all about “love”, what type of other mutually “repressed” free love relationships should gain similar legal protections? Does society really want all adults who “love” something be given “equal rights”? Should the “consenting adults” of a polygamist relationship now gain the same protection as homosexuality? Or should the new definition be limited to “two consenting adults” only? Why is that? Where is the hypocrisy to say ones definition is superior or inferior to the other? Where are the “equal rights” afforded to one group, but not the other? The need to understand and respect all sides of an issue is warranted, and to simply bash religion, or the lack of, is extreme and is doing massive harm in spreading hate and division in our “loving” county. It is time to understand that legality is not the only way to gain acceptance, and many gays can indeed be against the potentially drastic outcome of changing the traditional interpretation of the American heritage of marriage.
I really hope that people will respect your request to read every word of what you wrote, because you wrote clearly and convincingly. So many people just have no inkling what discrimination really feels like, and you’ve painted the picture very effectively. Thank you contributing something so thoughtful to this debate.
Here is the really really sad thing. The evangelical, conservative Christian right will not care that all those terrible things are happening to homosexuals around the globe or here in America. They WANT those things to be happening. They support the same hate groups that Cathy gives money to. They believe homosexuality is a CHOICE not something you are born into. They see it as a sin that needs to be punished. They want to coerce homosexuals to “turn back to God” and reclaim their hetersexual lives (even though science has shown that this is next to impossible). There is no use appealing to these zealots (even though I commend you for doing so). They believe they have the right to cast jusgement upon others that don’t fit their mold (or the word of God as THEY interpret it). I can only pray for these people that someday they will see how their beliefs only serve to divide us further. And that is NOT what Jesus wanted for us. Not at all….
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Beautifully written from another stand point thank you posting. However, without getting involved into the debate I would like to point out that Dan Cathy is not the CEO his father his. Small oversight I understand!
A well articulated piece! Bravo! You know, as unfortunate & ridiculous as Cathy’s statement was, comments like his keep this discussion going. Ironically, every time we hear things like this, the conversation evolves, and so does our country. As much as I hate hearing homophobic commentary, it seems that as time goes on & the conversation progresses, these types of comments backfire a little more each time. We wouldn’t have made the progress we have without the sparks that get people talking to one another.
Thank you so much for posting this.It made me cry.I have gays in my own family and I love them all the more because they don’t hide it.Some of my best friends are gay.To tell you the truth,gays and lesbiens are kinder and more honest than most people.I applaud you for coming here and saying what you think.I’m one hundred percent behind you.Don’t ever give up…..
“Pro-gay and Pro-Christ are NOT mutually exclusive.” TOTALLY FALSE!!!
“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Thank you. Thank you for writing this, thank you for loving your partner so deeply despite all the odds against you, and thank you for continuing to fight. I’ll continue to fight for you too.
You are right on about this being about “hate”. That is what satan wants the world to do, and yes, the hot subject seems to be about gay relationships. We all really need to follow what Jesus was trying to put across. Love one another, and let God deal with all the other issues. Hate is not of God, but satan. We need to forgive in order to heal, and I want to apologize to you two, and all others being persecuted for anything, for all the mistreatment that sin, aka hate and selfishment, are dealing out.
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I support you in your fight to be free! Bless you. Government representatives spoke up ( Thanks Mayor Lee) because voicing discrimination is not free speech. It’s hate talk. Take out the word gay and instead use the words black, asian, female, Catholic…America is supposed to be a land of freedom for all not just the “right people” It once was thought no Catholic could ever be President & look how foolish this sounds today. Our representatives in the government are SUPPOSED to support freedom for all & encourage this for their constituents, not parochial-minded bigotry! Thank you & let me know how I can support you!
“If things were reversed, I’d stand up for you.” AMEN!!!!!!
Megan Harris, I don’t think you read the article, or at least didn’t comprehend the message. This is one of the clearest, well thought-out, and completely logical arguments (if you want to call it that) any rationale human being would agree with.
I’ll continue going to Chik-fil-A. Not because I don’t care about the LBGT community, but because there aren’t enough hours in the day for me to screen every company with whom I do business to ensure the ideas they espouse line up with my own. I spend money every day on food and services from Starbucks, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and many other supporters of the LBGT community. I don’t do it to show my support for gay individuals; I do it because I like the products/services my money is buying. That also happens to be why I go to Chik-fil-A once or twice a week.
If you think I should boycott a Chik-fil-A because their owner is against gay rights, then why aren’t you also asking me to boycott other companies with similar beliefs? Why Chik-fil-A? Because the media tells us they are bad? Their CEO isn’t the only company leader in our country that opposes gay rights. And just b/c I choose to eat there doesn’t mean I don’t care about you or your well-being. Do you own an iPad/iPod/iPhone/Mac/etc? Would that mean you don’t care about human rights b/c Apple uses questionable companies to build and assemble those products at a price that we can afford?
I’m sure if we could track every penny we spend we’d see that ultimately some of our money will end up in the hands of someone who is going to put it towards a cause with which we don’t agree. But some of that money will also end up going towards causes we support. Don’t take action against Chik-fil-A if you aren’t going to do the same against other companies that give money to anti-gay causes. But if you do, don’t immediately assume I’m hateful or a bigot because I don’t follow suit.
I’m sorry you and other members of the LBGT community aren’t treated the same as the rest of us. I sincerely hope we are all able to enjoy the same rights one day.
[...] hated has degenerated into waffle fry jokes. There is a dandy commentary about this whole thing, The Chick Fellatio: stuck in the craw. It has a paragraph at the start that needs to be quoted in its entirety. It is about listening, and [...]
Beautifully written and you have summed up exactly how I feel. I have shared it on my Facebook as well and I hope that it will help open at least one person’s eyes. Thank you for sharing it with us!
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Thank You Guys! Amazing. SHARING.
Yeah, my mom is going to pretty much have a heart attack when she reads the word ‘fellatio’ on my facebook wall. (See, I am risking my mother’s health to posts this!)
But I am too touched by your words to not post. Thank you.
[...] for the final word on Chick-Fil-A and gay marriage read this. It’s the best post you’ll read all week. family life [...]
Wayne:
Wow. Awesome. Bravo. Really …
thank you for this post. its truth is powerful, and I hope it gives many (more substantial) food for thought than that Chikin co. could.
Great article! Well said. I completely agree with you and are standing behind you 100%. Keep on keepin’ on!
Sheesh, am I illiterate? Could I not proofread my comment? (I am an English teacher.)
Yeah, my mom is pretty much going to have a heart attack when she reads the word ‘fellatio’ on my facebook wall. (See, I am risking my mother’s health to post this!) But I am too touched by your words to not post. Thank you.
i reposted you article to share it with my friends. you nailed it. i got knocked for not wanting my dollars to go to the hate groups that chick fil a support. regardless of how i worded i was a jesus/christian basher. thanks so much for such a succint article
I think the phrase: My friends mean more to me than a chicken sandwich, sorta sums up this piece. Thank you.
I appreciate your arguments, but I think it is necessary to offer a different perspective here. I will start by saying that I do not believe any government should ban same-sex marriage, precisely because I don’t think the government should be involved in marriage at all.
1) Are we sure this is not simply about marriage? Dan Cathy simply said he is for traditional marriage. You say yourself that you shouldn’t judge people according to their stance on this issue, but you are doing precisely that. Maybe you have more information that I do? Your facts are red herrings:
- In every state I can be fired for being ugly. Generally, an employer can fire you for any reason whatsoever unless you fall into a protected class (age, race, religion, etc.). I assume you think sexuality should be a protected class. Should ugly people be protected?
- Are you aleging CFA or Dan Cathy wants gays to be killed (like they do in other countries) or for homosexuality to be outlawed? Is there any proof that CFA or Dan Cathy supports the organizations you mention? CFA has given money to these organizations (that want to outlaw homosexuality) or just to “organizations like them” (that want to outlaw gay marriage)?
2. Mr. Cathy is against gay marriage. Clearly you disagree. His stance goes against your way of life. Yours does not go against his. I see your point. But you take it way too far. Is there evidence he wants to get you killed? Wants to make your sex illegal?
3. To many this is about Jesus. Jesus clearly never said “homosexuality is a sin.” However, he didn’t say it wasn’t. He was a Jew and Jewish belief at the time was that homosexuality is a sin. He could have debunked this but he didn’t. There are many, many Christians who believe it is a sin. Is this concept lost on you? Every Christian is a sinner. For those that believe homosexuality is a sin, perhaps they should examine their own lives and see if they are living in a way that publically embraces their sins. But this doesn’t mean they have to support yours.
4. Would you like a list of companies that support the ACLU? Many Christians belive the ACLU spends money against equality for religious people (sure, they also do good work). Will you boycott them? Will you boycott companies that support La Raza or NAACP, which promote the interests of one race above the others?
I am a devout Christian and I do not bash anyone that is gay. I do see a lot of Christian bashing, here. I don’t understand that. If people don’t like to be bashed and ridiculed then why do they do it others.
I have family members and friends that are gay. I hold tight to my beliefs, (that is my right and just like you don’t have to agree with my lifestyle, I don’t have to agree with yours) I love my family and friends dearly. And there is nothing that will change that. Nothing. It saddens me when I see hate crimes and cruelty done to anyone no matter what my beliefs are.
As a Christian I am called to love and pray for others. I’m not called to judge and I appreciate if people didn’t throw stones at all of us. I am nothing like the Westboro Baptist Church. I don’t hate, steal people’s money, and think everyone else is stupid if they don’t believe in the bible. It is their choice.
So my question is, why am I judged, constantly by people who claim to have an open mind? I have found that people who claim to have an “open mind” only have that if you agree with them.
If I came onto your blog and was terribly disrespectful lumping every gay person into a category, calling them stupid and using profanity, you would have every right to be angry with me. I don’t have the right to do that. It’s cruel.
And on the note of discrimination: Christians are discriminated all the time. Most of them time I keep my mouth shut. And when I don’t I get judged. So everyone else is allowed to have their rights, say what they want, but when I do I’m a judgmental, religious wacko?
I don’t understand that. I don’t think people know the meaning of tolerance at all, at least people who claim to be tolerant anyway.
I’m not coming on to this blog to attack anyone, just wondering if people could answer those questions. I am a Christian and I’m tired of being attacked too.
That was beautifully written.
Very well written piece about tolerance and showing the same kindness and decency we all would like to our fellow man.
Thank You Wayne!! Change in this country has never been easy and I find it interesting when the majority have a slight taste of discrimination or feel threatened they rise up! Welcome to the life of gay and lesbian people who have wanted nothing more than equality since we finally found a voice from the Stonewall Riots in 1969! As Maya Angelou says, “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them”, and secondly, “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will NEVER forget how you made them feel”.
Please read Wayne’s post with an open mind and heart and critque with respect and love for humanity!!
<3
Thank you for this.
[...] could not have put this in better words myself – this is a very well written and informative essay that I urge anyone who is remotely interested in this issue to read with an open [...]
Thank you for this thoughtful commentary. The paragraph about reading and paying attention is a classic.
Here are a few thoughts about what you said. It was a good excuse to write some text to go between the pictures.
http://chamblee54.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/eatmorchikingate/
I appreciate all you said above, but am compelled to comment on one thing: your statement that this is not a legal argument. You are right, but there are politicians who made it one – those who told this corporation that they are not welcome in their town. That is discrimination and that is where I believe many people across American are coming from in getting upset. No city mayor has a right to tell a company they cannot locate in their town. Think about what New York City went through when the mosk was being debated just down the block from the site of the World Trade Center. Same thing here. That is where I struggled with what was being said. That’s all.
I could not add a single word that would make your post any better. Well done. Sharing. May you and yours experience the joys of happiness, safety, equality and prosperity in your lifetime.
Namaste.
One of the best summations I’ve seen. Any time someone wants to argue this with me, I think I’ll point them here. Of course, many of them don’t seem to have the inclination to even begin to understand this side of things. I like the chicken, have since I was a kid, but never again will I eat it. I don’t know how anyone with a conscience could.
This is said perfectly! I love you! Keep up the good fight! <3
This is a well written thoughtful piece. But it still comes down to an assumption that if you don’t agree that sexual orientation is a “right” and an “unchangeable fact” ( and there is as much scientific evidence to the contrary as to the other side) – you are still considered a bully. Chick-fil-a. Also, there is an assumption that how people use their money is our concern. It is not – they are not helping hate. They are just exercising their own rights to free speech and the pursuit of their religion. Just because someone’s opinion is different, does not mean it is wrong. At the end of the day – no one is walking away any less. Should matter that most of America apparently agrees with traditional marriage? Apparently it does – evidenced by the turn-out yesterday. But should those who support traditional marriage be bullied into changing what they believe – of course not.
Thank You Wayne!! Change in this country has never been easy and I find it interesting when the majority have a slight taste of discrimination or feel threatened they rise up! Welcome to the life of gay and lesbian people who have wanted nothing more than equality since we finally found a voice from the Stonewall Riots in 1969! As Maya Angelou says, “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them”, and secondly, “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will NEVER forget how you made them feel”.
Please read Wayne’s post with an open mind and heart and critque with respect and love for humanity!!
What you said reminded me of the things I’ve been thinking about since I went to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC last year.
That experience made me think about the nature of patriotism, and standing up for the right thing, even if it means you might get harassed, arrested or even killed.
I don’t know how brave I am. I don’t think I want to find out.
Thank You and very well written! Love from Minnesota.
A few questions. You stated, “For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.” Do you have a link where the Family Research Council has stated this?
Also, you asked for the place in the Bible where God commands marriage between a man and a woman. In the book of Genesis, the Bible says, “So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.”
I have a family member that is homosexual and I would not want him bullied or mistreated in anyway. Having said that, while I appreciate his right to choose a partner of the same sex, I don’t believe in same-sex marriage. I do, however, believe that people that who love each other should have rights. I am still trying to resolve the issue for myself. Appreciate your post.
Phenomenal!!! I agree with you completely!!!!
Well said!
I’m at risk of being blasted here but I did read your blog all the way. I hear you on the issue of we’re you believe some of the money from chic-fil-a went to. I keep hearing this but Im not sure what I believe about it because I have never seen a report from Chic-fil-a’s company to prove it. I’m so not for this if it’s fact.
Now here goes the start of the attack on me. I AM Christian. I want to start by saying I’m so sorry how part (they do not represent us all!) of the church has shown down right hate towards you and your partner. It is WRONG! and I disagree with that and will stand with you on that issue. The second commandment is Love thy neighbor as yourself I that God leaves the love for us to do and the Judgeing is His on not ours.
I hope you can understand my character and heart for you in writing this that I’m not meaning to offend. however you said the Bible does to touch on same sex relation or marriage but it does. In the beginning God created a man and a woman to be together. He said cattle for cattle man for woman. Please have some patients and love for me in return I’m asking you. I’m not a bigot or ignorant. I do not believe that people are “Born this Way” I believe it is a choice that develops in a person out of curiosity’s the majority of us have straight or gay about the same sex. I believe it is uncontrold lust. ( Now please I read your article all the way don’t throw stones at me please!!!) Our society is more lust and sex driven then I have ever seen it before our values as a country what we allow our eyes and family’s to see and watch on a daily basis is overwhelmingly different from even say 100 years ago. Sex in society and lowered morals and values is become the Norm what I know to be sin is trying to be a constant brain wash for me to accept all over media movies and advertisements. I don’t agree with any of it. I don’t want to see a man or women’s somethin’ somethin’s on splay when I got o buy a cellphone. I’m not saying she needs to wear a turtleneck but I am saying in the mall when I shop with my 2 little boys Pottery Barn Kids is directly accross from Victoria’s secret and I wish she would keep her secrets to herself because my boys are only 2 and 5. From a very young age unless I keep them in a bubble our men and women are being exposed to just lust filled and sexual perverse advertisements. I can’t hide life from them.
I feel for everything Good and wonderful God has to offer that the devil offers something similar and usually more enticing but the end result is death. Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to me but throuh the father…Jesus has something to offer the devil does not forgiveness and eternal life in heaven after death.
Please stay with me here! So I disagree whole heartedly with the sinful nature of homosexuallity but behind that sexual orientation or lifestyle whatever you choose to name it is a person God and me:-) love that person. What I see over and over is that the gay and lesbians can not separate themselves as a person from their sexual orientation. It has become who they are. So if we disagree with what suppose to be only a small part of you as a person then somehow that has become hateing you in a hitler sized way as a whole. People disagree all the time right? Tose same people can get along on other issues besides this one it seems. Point being I love you! Your article is heartfelt. We both KNOW what we elieve to be fact yes there is a wall here that will not be lowered by either of us…but isn’t there so many more things then what we do in our bedrooms privately to get to know about each other…I love to cook. I can have love and tolerance for you and your decisions. But I’m seeing more hate come from the Gay and lesbian community more slander name calling that I have NOT shown it. I’m stonished that the Gay community wants tolerance for all but offers non to me as a Christian. So can I not be called ignorant intolerant bigot for once and who knows maybe friend me on FB and we can get to know the other parts of who we are. That is tolerance.
Simply gorgeous. Honest, real, rationale, with a clear connection between head and heart. Wishing you and your partner many more years of undivided love and happiness.
Awesome, amazing blog. I was going to give my own opinion on the matter in my blog, but am deciding against it. Instead, I’ll share and re-post this as far and wide as possible. Because, frankly, I don’t think I could ever come close to putting this issue into words to the same effect you did.
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a truly appropriate way to look at all sides..
Thank you.
AHHHHHH I LOVE THIS!! Thank you so much! If I had a Chick chain in my area I would boycott them! I might got KFC tonight anyway!
Very well written! I wish I could express myself this easily, however when the subject comes up I get sooo mad and frustrated!! Thank you for this. I am sharing!
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I agree with the whole article. However I find talking to Christians that they are unaware of the money being donated to these organizations. Instead they have been hyped up by the idea that Christians have their right to their opinion that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
I have explained until I am blue in the face that it’s not about one person’s opinion. Everyone has their own opinions. But it’s wrong for people to support Hate. It’s right there in the Christian beliefs that you should not judge others and that you will be judged for your own deeds. Yet there is all this crazy coming from the “Christians”.
I have a hard time believing that God is going to condemn someone to Hell for being in love with someone of the same sex. I also believe that marriage in the sense we are fighting about it is about a piece of paper and equal rights. The commitment to your partner can be religious but let’s be honest that is based off ones personal beliefs.
Christians are not banning other religions from being married. If their church doesn’t want to perform marriages between two people of the same sex then fine don’t allow that. No one is asking your church to perform or encourage same sex marriages.
But instead of people running around on both sides and spitting hate at each other, the public at large needs to be made more aware of what the true root of this issue is. It is not because a man with a chain of restaurants said he believes a marriage should be between a man and a woman. It is because his company is supporting hate propaganda with profits earned from his restaurants.
Very well said. I’ll cut-and-paste-and-attribute, but if you’d change the title, it would be easier to publish this link to the article and your well-reasoned commentary on the comments directly to my FB friends who happen to be under eighteen and still living at home in various Christian households… Several of them proudly supported “free speech” by going to their local CFA outlet, and they need to see this article AND the commentary to better understand what their actions mean to everyone. A lot of them are good kids, and it’s likely they’ve never heard any other point of view other than that dispensed by their parents, their church, and whichever news organization is chosen to service their household.
@Michael Kaply – People aren’t protesting those organizations because they’re not directly supporting those organizations. But, by buying at Chick-fil-A, they’re indirectly supporting them – which until two months ago, wasn’t a known issue. Individual franchises had been scorned for making contributions, but the entire organization hadn’t publicly taken a stance. Now, they have.
And now, we know that with every dollar we spend at Chick-fil-A, we’re supporting those organizations we oppose. So, we choose to spend them elsewhere. Simple.
We must understand that we live in a world where discrimination is allows in existence. Minds change through the course of history because we experiment and become comfortable with change over time. The ability for humans to adapt to change is one of the greatest gifts. We must not be against Chick Fil A, and the people who have supported them because they are human as well and are given the simple right to support or not support a view. They have their own view points on how life should be lived and what rules and regulations need to be put into place to sustain all. Over time, groups and people will began to be comfortable with the life of same sex relationships, But we must remember that as a society we decide as a whole what is acceptable and what is not. You must not tell people to not support chick fil a because they have a right to their own opinion and views. What needs to be done is to ignore those who are against you and fight back with a silence. let people know what you are, who you are, and most importantly that you are still human. Change the narrow mind set of the people through example. Fight but fight with class. One last thing, in the Roman times same sex was not looked down upon . The mens virility was accepted. This view was very strong in these times. but over the course of history, especially after Christ people began to feel differently. “Majority rules” as they say, so change the mind set of the majority, but still allow for people to hold their own opinion and support, even if it hurts another.
Wayne, I luv your creative, informative, n expressive valid writings that I’ve just read dating all of the way back to May of 2010 I luved them all!! I must say that I agree with you, n I thoroughly enjoyed reading every one of them!!! I luv your style!!! My entire life, I’ve loved reading books, n most of my entire life I’ve mostly only read non-fiction 90% of the time.
So glad that I came across your post on George Takei’s Facebook page of over two million. Thank-you for taking your time to write.
~Angel
This by far the best article or opinion on this topic. Extremely well written and has great view points on how we have treated people who are different then us. I will share this with my 11 year old. Already, the taunting has occurred at her school for being LGBT or just plain different. It needs to stop and I think this next generation can do it. Education is power!
It’s easy enough for me to say that I won’t go to Chik Fil A since there aren’t any around here, but what I like about your essay is that it explains why one would choose not to support ANY business that gives its money to anti-gay organizations (or any other organization that seeks to limit human rights or make the very existence of an entire group of people illegal). You’ve really summed it up beautifully.
people have the right to freedom of speech, like it or not. i dont believe in gay marriage but that doesnt make me ur enemy or a hater just my view of marriage u cant force me to support ur view of marriage because i have my own opinions, man and women together can make families grow not same sex couples. Don’t forget the employees that work in this company they all dont support the owners views so wake up and stop crying
So beautifully written and articulate…thank you! I will definitely be sharing. Also, I LOVE the anniversary pic of you and Cody – that’s adorable!!
You are dead wrong!!! It is exactly about an attempt at government censorship!!! The Mayor of Boston (an elected, government official) wants to deny this man business licenses based on his religious beliefs…
Well said. thank you. I stand with you.
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Well said. Shared on Facebook for the edification of others. Belated Happy Anniversary!
I totally agree with this post. I believe it’s not anybody’s business to tell you who u should love, marry, create a family, or be with. While I have never eaten at Chik fil a. I now definitely have, or want nothing to do with them. They should be ashamed of themselves, and instead spend some of that money towards, all the priests and pastors who are molesting children, to put them in prison. Keep up the fight. I support you.!!
The most sober breakdown of the issue I’ve read so far. If only the rest of the country could be so thoughtful and empathetic. Thanks for the enlightening read
Right on!
Picking apart the BIble? Oh, wow. That is rich. That is what YOU are doing Cindy, not us. Maybe it’s time you stopped being so bigoted. Because you are. And, while you’re at it? Look up the parts of the Bible that reference Biblical Marriage. Because from your posts? I know you haven’t.
Great blog post. Outstanding in fact.
Thank you, beautifully written. I couldn’t put my finger on why I was so deeply hurt and upset by all the support for CFA yesterday, but reading this helped put words to my feelings.
This is very well written. And very well thought out. You’ve given me many points to think about. I personally am moderate on the issue- not because I won’t stand up for my friends (or myself, being a member of the LGBT community), but because of sides of the issue that has been raised.
However, I have some things to point out myself. Not for the sake of arguing or debating.. Simply to give people something to think about, just as you’ve done here.
First: You stated “This has nothing to do with government censorship or government abridgment of Freedom of Speech.” The government HAS stepped in on this. The mayor of Boston has said he will not allow Chik-Fil-A in his city. This is the government stepping in and preventing free progression of commerce for Dan and his company. I fully support those who want to boycott Chik-Fil-A. Where you will and will not eat is entirely an individual decision. And I support that wholeheartedly. HOWEVER. It is not for the government to decide whether a corporation will be allowed in one city but not another, based simply on the personally held beliefs of the CEO.
Also, you stated “There is no ‘live and let live’ on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.” I’m sorry, but I’m seeing a logical fallacy here. When did Dan Cathy state he placed his money where he did in the attempt to prevent members of the LGBT society from staying ALIVE? Yes, in some countries it is punishable by death. And that disgusts me, being one of those people who would suffer from a law such as that. However, though Dan Cathy IS openly against gay marriage (and I’m not stating whether that is right or wrong; it’s not my place to say within the current argument), and has placed his money where he believes his beliefs are supported,
I have seen no evidence that he does not wish you or me or any others of the same sexuality to live.
I honestly believe this entire situation has been blown way out of proportion. It’s been long known that Chik-Fil-A was under religious ownership. Which would make it fairly obvious their stance on gay marriage. So then why is this just now becoming an issue? Because he outright stated his beliefs, publicly? His PERSONALLY HELD beliefs? Personally held beliefs that, through common sense, have been obviously present for a long time. So why is he suddenly a focal point? Nothing has honestly changed.
There are many villains out there who deserve this target on their back much more than Dan Cathy. This is just somewhere for people to direct their anger. But there are people and places who deserve it much much more.
As I said, I do support the personal decisions to boycott Chik-Fil-A. Don’t get my wrong, I am neither arguing nor criticizing such a wonderfully well-written essay.
I’m merely presenting more points to be thought on, asking for the same open minds that you did from the beginning.
I want to send this to all of my chick-fil-a eating friends: When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.
If God is, as Cathy et al claim, more concerned that a family be comprised of certain chromosomes than that it be filled with love? Then I don’t want anything to do with that God.
While in the beginning you said you were looking for common ground, I didn’t see you actually doing that in the post from my perspective. You still used an accusatory phrase like “…some misguided church teaching.” You must certainly realize that to some (not me, but some) it’s not at all misguided? It’s who they are, for better or worse. That being said, some Christians (the ones who are supporting anti-LGBT groups) are among of the most controlling and judgmental people in the world. They believe that their way is the only way, and that anyone who’s not with them is against not only them, but their God. Appearing to side with their God is more important to them than being compassionate or empathetic with friends or strangers who don’t share their belief (which they see as fact). Not all Christians are like that, but the ones who aren’t like that aren’t the ones getting all the airtime. Understanding that they are who they are, there is no hope of common ground with that part of Christianity. The only thing that can help is teaching our young that whether the LGBT lifestyle is nurture or nature, whether it’s a choice or genetic, either way it’s just not wrong. To use one Christian’s idea in reverse, if we just teach our kids that it’s not wrong, sooner or later those who choose to be anti-LGBT will die out. We don’t have to use the idea of putting them all together in fenced in camps though, I mean really we’re not THAT stupid. (Fences just don’t keep people in!)
Thank you. You said it better than I could.
Loved it, feeling it, living it
Without a doubt, this is the best post I’ve read on the controversy. Thanks for writing it Wayne!
First off, I couldn’t imagine how hard it must be for LGBT and the struggle for dignity. I am a Christian and am not a liberal. In fact, many would call me a right-wing conservative. Yes, I believe that men should not dress as a woman and women should not dress as a man. Yes, I believe homosexual acts are a sin, just as much as I believe gluttony, drunkenness, lying, smoking, and hate are sins.
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
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I also completely agree with Michael. Target the organizations that are actively and successfully creating problems. Then, where will Dan Cathy’s money go?
If things were reversed, I’d stand up for you.
So…are you standing with the Roman Catholic Church and other religious organizations who are being forced by the Obama Administration to provide contraceptives and abortion services under the HSS mandate? I was just wondering since you said you would stand up if others were being victimized for their beliefs.
You have a strange definition of the word “victimized”. The churches will face some withheld funding for their refusal to provide those services.
Can you see the difference between “withholding voluntary funding from an organization” and “making individuals second-class citizens under the law”? I’m sure you can if you want to.
When are you going to post again? You really entertain a lot of people!
So well written – thank you for putting this out there! I’m asking a whole bunch of people to read this.
Wonderfully written. It brought me to tears.
You are so right on target here on all counts. What Chick-fil-a is doing is despicable. I’ve had arguments with so many people that just don’t get it. Please, please never stop standing up for who you are!! BTW – I am a heterosexual man who has been married to a wonderful woman for almost 33 years. We are members of a Christian church. We are both huge proponents of gay rights (and human rights in general) and advocates for same sex marriage. Our church congregation and the church leadership are open and welcoming to all. Our pastor regularly testifies on behalf of gay rights in the community and in the church. These to not have to be contrary beliefs. Best of luck to you in your stand against Chick-fil-a and all the other oppressors. I really wish that there were Chick-fil-a restaurants in our area so that we could join the boycott.
Peace,
Mark Truman
Of all that has been written about Chick-fil-A, this is probably the most heartfelt and eloquent plea yet. Well done, sir!
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I feel for you. I am very sorry for how gay people must have felt yesterday. I respect your views. It makes my heart hurt that some people can be so hateful. Some people at ChickFilA may have gone there to be hateful, though I believe most were there because they believe in free speech, and for standing up for one’s beliefs without ridicule and fear. Also, as you said, you can be anti-gay marriage and be gay (or in my case, tolerant/loving to gays). It would seem to be a contradiction, but it’s not b/c being pro-traditional marriage doesn’t mean you hate the gay community. Some people are that way. I would like to clarify, though, that there are many people out there that love all people, regardless of race, gender, orientation, etc. I am one of those people. I treat all people that I meet equally and with respect, as Jesus would want me to do. However, I also am under an obligation to follow God’s commandments. Sometimes there are two good things we must choose between. In this case for me, it’s condoning something I shouldn’t in order to show my love and tolerance, or condoning the definition of marriage defined by God from the beginning. I do not like it when people say that following the scriptures is ignorant and we are merely “sheep” who do not think for ourselves. This is not the case. God, parents, teachers – we may love all of our children or students, but that does not mean we condone or support all their actions. Discipline and order are necessary too. You said that in the Christian community it seems the only thing that seems to be a sin anymore is being gay. I am sorry you feel that way, and unfortunately, it may be true with some Christians. I am one, however, that believes in following all of God’s commandments, and I try very hard not to be hypocritical. I am saying all this to hopefully ease your mind that not everyone who is pro-traditional marriage dislikes the gay community. Honestly, I don’t think of myself as being anti-gay marriage. It is the obvious opposite to pro-traditional marriage, but when I think of my marriage views, that comes directly from scripture and prophets, not from my intolerance of anyone else. I also would like to say that it seems that many gay people define themselves in only that way. Why can’t we all just be people? Why do we have to say gay, black, white, straight, etc? When I have a friend, that person is a friend, not a gay friend or a Mexican friend. It doesn’t matter about all those other things. They are just little parts of a person, not who they are. I also want to say that I have many gay friends and even a gay brother. I love them as much as any of my straight friends. Thus, it is possible to love the gay community without supporting gay marriage. I hope you can see that, and know that your views are respected. Those with opposing views would like to be respected as well. Thank you for reading this, and thanks for your comments too.
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I love you. Thank you for writing this. It kills me how people don’t get it.
I want equality for my gay friends and family members to enjoy the same rights, safety, respect, treatment, and acknowledgement as my Husband and I enjoy. I have also always hated the lack of compassion and empathy certain people lack when dealing with such personal social issues. They fail miserably at putting themselves in the other person’s shoes. There is no quetion that if the shoe were on the other foot, they’d be fighting mad. This is well said. Again, thank you…. and I love you.
Thank you for this, I posted it for my friends and family to see, a lot of people are being hurt by this debate. There should be no debate, equal rights for all regardless of race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation! It scares me to think my sisters, my friends, or my uncles could be hurt just because of how they were born.
Thanks for writing such a beautifully thought-out and well written post. You expressed yourself incredibly well. Thanks.
Beautifully written. It is nice to see a calm and clear essay on this issue.
This post is awesome. I can’t understand how anyone could support Chick-Fil-A’s bigotry, I really don’t. Especially when you consider the organizations they support want to take basic rights away from people just for being gay. I refuse to stand by and not voice my concerns. This is why I refuse to buy anything from Chick-Fil-A (that, and their food is overpriced and not that good to begin with).
This is so beautifully written. I actually teared up at:
“This is personal for us. There are times in your life when you have the opportunity to stand up for your friends. When you let that opportunity pass, your friends notice. It doesn’t mean we can’t be friends, but it diminishes you, and it diminishes the friendship.”
Just. Beautiful. Every point you make is correct. And it pulled every heart string in my body.
To me, it’s totally ridiculous that fighting against anti-homosexual sentiment is such a prominent government issue in our society today. I feel like 100 years from now, we’re going to look back at all this like we look back at slavery in America…thinking “That was OBVIOUSLY a stupid dumb sad thing that happened. Why was it even a thing in the first place?” Spending all this time, money & energy on debating whether or not two people who love each other should be allowed to show that to the fullest seems just absolutely ridiculous in a legal manner when there are so much more pressing issues in the world today. Think about it: people are choosing to fight to oppress love instead of fighting to end mass genocides, starvation, and a million other horrible things happening in our world today! Regardless of any one person’s feelings on homosexuality, I just can’t wrap my head around how any of it is the business of our government. I’m pro-love & pro-peace. I’m pretty sure Jesus was too.
Thank you for your well-written thoughts on the subject. I’ll be passing this along.
For all the people commenting who seem to think that Chick-Fil-A is the victim because local governments are banning them from opening locations in their towns, guess what?
You can’t make zoning regulations against homophobia and hate. If Chick-Fil-A chooses to sue any of the cities that refuse to let them in, they will win. But they won’t sue, because the towns that want to ban them are liberal, gay-friendly areas, where they won’t make money. I’m from northern New Jersey, and now live in New York. There is exactly one Chick-Fil-A that I have ever seen in this area. There’s a reason they don’t have more of them around all of us “Godless liberals.”
On the other hand, if any gay people choose to sue Dan Cathy for donating to so many hate groups, they will lose. Dan Cathy and Chick-Fil-A are not the victims here. Stop pretending like this story only exploded once cities started promising to ban Chick-Fil-A. How do you think all these elected officials found out about Dan Cathy’s comments? Because it was all over the news. The REAL news, not Fox News.
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I am not gay, but do have many gay friends who I love and support. The idea of a gay couple getting married does not bother me and yes I go to church most Sundays and served on the Board of Elders at my church for 6 years.
With that said, my concern is the boycott of these restaurants. The men and women who own these franchises are not Mr. Cathy and are not responsible for his words or actions. They are entrepreneurs who purchased a franchise to make a living and support their families. They are male, female, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, gay, and straight. They are the people who make up this great country and to boycott their privately owned franchise because their founder of the company believes something is hurting this economy and great people who may or may not support this issue.
This reminds me of the BP oil spill in the Gulf several years ago. There was a large protest of BP gas stations who were owned and operated by individuals, not BP and these people suffered, not the billionaires at BP.
Fight for what you believe in, but don’t hurt the little people who own a franchise because the owner of a global brand feels a particular way on a particular issue. If you do, you are hurting a population of people who may or may not support Mr. Cathy’s beliefs.
Basically you are damning all Chic Fil A franchise owners because of the founders views, which seems similar to the battle you are trying to fight for yourselves.
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@Cindy, It is not for you to say who has the right to happiness and love and who doesn’t. You say Love one another, and this was the greatest commandment, set above all other commandments by Jesus. Love is not shown by hate, repression, endangerment of life and health. That is what those who are born gay face every day. Where is God in that? Where is Christian love being shown when these people who supposedly love Jesus are wishing harm and death on someone else? Is that the example Jesus set? You believe in marriage between a woman and man, your have the right to your beliefs, but do you have the right to repress someone else’s beliefs because they don’t match yours?
I would also like to point out my frustration at the fact that this whole gay marriage thing in particular should not even be a debate as far as the Bible goes. The USA is supposed to have separation of church and state. Making SSM legal is a SECULAR issue. Your church doesn’t have to recognize it. We are supposed to have freedom of religion so if “Jane’s” religion allows for SSM and she wanted to marry a woman, she should be allowed to according to secular law. Why do the Christians get to force all Americans into following their rules? Cindy – you can believe in and support the idea of marriage between a man and woman all you want to but we are saying you shouldn’t be able to take actions to prevent others from from having SSM. It’s blatant discrimination and bigotry and doesn’t go along with the American ideals of religious freedom. If Adam and Steve get married, it has ZERO effect on you and your marriage. ZERO. It’s technically not even any of your business, just as you marriage is technically none of theirs or mine. I dont’ understand why the right wing doesn’t get this. They claim to about freedome but want to keep freedom away from Gay people. It’s not logical and it’s contradictory/hypocritical. Discriminating against a minorty that doesn’t follow your religious doctrine IS wrong. BTW, I’m a straight Christian.
I don’t want your hairy balls in my court, buddy!
Great post!
Wayne, thank you for your thoughtful post and for the delightful “then and now photos.” I don’t worry about the franchise applicant suffering. (S)He has chosen to align with that company. The franchising process is like boot camp squared. And intimate. So the franchise applicant is a member of Cathy’s culture. Getting franchised is betting on the main corporation. If Subway starts a policy of “no blue eyed people served” and you subsequently get a franchise, you deserve the consequences of all hazel eyed people refusing to buy a Subway sandwich in solidarity. The intent of a boycott is to make the consequences of the corporate misbehavior visible and sensed in the only way a corporation is able to detect. That is the bottom line. And Huckabee shilling for them to protect Cathy from the consequences of his behavior is using the same arguments. I didn’t hear Franklin Graham saying “No, don’t eat extra fried food, just stay home and pray!” If the boycott was/is immoral, so is the anti-boycott. It would be wrong to BOMB a place where immoral behavior is going on. No good Christian would even consider that! But refusing to patronize is just good sense. I buy as little slave-produced merchandise as possible. When that policy resulted in not finding anything at WalMart I could buy, I stopped going there to shop. Is that a boycott or immoral, I think not. If Mitt Romney badmouthed WalMart because they discriminate against women executives, would I buy from them to offset all the Democrats refusing to buy there?
I am uncomfortable knowing that $3.00 of the $7.29 I paid for a fried pullet sandwich fries and Coke is going to Uganda to pay for bribes so that gay men can be beaten to death with impunity. So I will find somewhere else to eat. I was uncomfortable eating table grapes picked by abused farm-workers in California, so I ate New York grapes instead. I refused to buy a Yugo for multiple reasons. We all make decisions and set priorities. Christians who give money to hate groups rather than to relieve starvation and suffering believe they will be rewarded in the afterlife. I hope and pray they will. And If hate filled prayer worked, Cathy would be getting his reward right now, I am sure.
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There is nothing I can add to the conversation that hasn’t been covered in your excellent piece on the subject, so I will simply say, “Thanks.” Yours is a voice that need to be heard by more people.
Very well written article but i disagree and I did have a open mind. Do you consider yourself a christian? If so, have you also been so passionate about planned parenthood and their connections with murdering the unborn? Which is the greater cause? You stated you have limited rights but the unborn has NO rights! List the companies that support plan parenthood and boycott those companies. Give God the glory in the way you live in each thing we do. Isnt the God of the bible the same God in the OT and NT. God is perfection and does not change. God is Love but he will also hand out his wrath
This is in support of all the PSU victims who were abused by a homosexual pedophile named Jerry Sundusky. Support the victims!
Well you have me in two ways…one, I pledge my life to fighting against intolerant conservative bigots and two, I always thought CFA was gross….the chicken is slimy and the pickle is like a big middle finger saying “haha eff you…no tasty gourmet goodies for you simpleton”. I am not a simpleton so had no interest in such a mundane POS sandwich.
Where in the bible? How about adam and eve? Sodom and gommorrah? I like how you try to tell everyone to have an open mind (I.e. turn your brain off) at the start of the blog. This is aboutthe freedom of speech, when mayors want to financially damage companies because of what is said. Show everyone proof of your “missionary ” comments. Fire up your base with baseless and deceitful info. Typical liberal tactics.
I have a biblical question. No matter how many times I read it, it really seems to me that the centurian weeping for the loss of his servant Lazarus was a gay man mourning the death of his lover. What other explanation could there be for a soldier to be so upset that his servant was dying that he pleaded with Jesus to come in time to save him, and then be so upset at Jesus for not arriving in time to prevent the death? And why would he have been so happy when Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead? Typical soldiers would have been somewhat indifferent to an illness or death of a servant (unless they CARED FOR that servant.) So… Didn’t Jesus demonstrate support for loving gay unions in this instance?
Just thinking out loud, here…
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I have been struggling for two days how to put this into words and you have done so wonderfully. I will be sharing because your words speak my heart also. I was so frustrated yesterday and feel such relief today that I can share your post so others can understand a different point of view. Again, thank you!
We all feel it.
You said it – Perfectly.
Thanks.
Concise and insightful. Well done.
PS: My suggestion is The Chick Fiasco: stuck in the craw
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This is a great post. Thank you for writing it. I am so tired of the ridiculous name-calling and insanity based purely on people unwilling to budge and inch.
Utterly and quite beautifully…well said.
Amazingly well communicated. You guys are incredibly sharp and offer excellent insight. Thanks for standing up for equality and giving everyone much to ponder!
I love you for writing this. I love you for your courage, for your clarity, for your caring, and for your love. Thank you.
Curious if we are all about valuing life etc… what happens if that boycott had the effect you hoped, some poor guy gets let go due to revenue dropping and ends up homeless/starving and dies… how do you value his life or is it a by-product of the conflict? I realize this is a HUGE hypothetical question, but I think it hits at the problem, then means at which you fight for your value may destroy someone elses. War is a perfect example of this… I value you countrymen so I will kill the enemy… to value all life would mean no war…
Hi, Wayne,
Thanks for writing this post. There is a lot to think on, here. I think bullying is hurtful and wrong, period. I believe bullying is worse when it’s being done by people and groups I would otherwise identify with on other issues (if I describe myself as a white hetero married male Conservative Christian, I trust you understand that the only one of those distinctions to rule my life is the Christ-following part, even if I do that poorly – I mention this primarily so you know there are some independent-thinking God followers who are watching and listening and praying and trying to find the truth and do the right thing). I found your post thoughtful, practical, reasoned, and helpful as a mechanism for cutting through all the dust and noise to get down to the nitty-gritty underlying issues.
I shared this post on my various social media networks. Perhaps cooler heads from different perspectives can work together to resolve some of these unresolved issues without demonizing each other. I sincerely hope so.
I was directed here from my friend across the aisle, Jason Bentley (an otherwise good, sharp guy, who just also happens to be, y’know, a /Lions/ fan).
Thanks for a lovely post. We’re almost the same person! Grew up in Northeastern Louisiana, went to undergrad there, left to California (where I ALSO got my MFA in Musical Theatre!) and have lived in New York for over a decade. I haven’t been back to Louisiana in almost 12 years, and the increasing intolerance and arch conservative fanaticism on the part of its politicians and citizens is the main reason.
Best to you. I selfishly hope we have a reason to return home some day, perhaps to even live with our chosen mates!
First – I agree with the others this is one of the better articles I have seen from people whom I disagree with.
I do not agree with your point about Jesus. This gets confusing, but the Bible does not support the belief that one could truly love Jesus and be in agreement with a homesexual life style. Some info.
Jesus loves all people equally all the time. His love is perfect. There is nothing you or I or anyone else could do to decrease His love for us. There is also nothing anyone could do to increase that love for us. It is the same all the time for all people.
But Loving Jesus is a bigger step for us.
The Bible says – If you love me you will obey my commands – John 14:15
A sexual relationship outside of marriage between one man and one woman is against God’s commands. This could be hetersexual or homesexual – makes no difference. Multiple verses in Leviticus, Exodus, Romans and the gospels. That is just one of the areas we can ‘sin’ in. The Bible also states that all sin is equal – whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumble at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it – James 2:10. Lots of people in the Christian community think there is something special about sexual sin. That is not true – sexual sin is the same as lying, acting in anger, or not treating people with respect, or anything else we do in conflict with what the Bible teaches. The difference is in how we handle our sin. We cannot completely avoid it, the Bible says we all sin. We can confess it. Confess means to agree with what God says. Yes – I agree that I was wrong to judge X because they did Y. The Bible says that when we do that we are considered righteous “if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9. Once confessed, it is like we never sinned – ie. we can truely love Jesus that way because to Him, we have obeyed all his commands.
So you are correct in saying that there is nothing more wrong with homosexual relationships than any of the other stuff you mention that many of us do much more often than we would like. But if one loves Jesus, they would agree with the Bible that that action is in opposition to what God commands.
Well written, and your non-aggressive tone is a model that I wish others expressing their opinion would follow. While you mention that the undertone of the debate is beyond single-sex marriage, and I agree, and I also think that another major implication evolving is the conflict between modern social acceptances and religious doctrine. I have to disagree with your comments regarding Christians and the gay community- both the RC and all Protestant denominations recognize the Bible as the word of God. Of all the ambiguous to interpret topics in the Bible, God’s stance (per several Bible passages) on homosexuality is not one of them. It’s impossible to be a Christian (by definition, believing the Bible is the word of God) and Pro-Gay (in the sense of for Gay rights). It’s definitely believable and common for individuals to characterize themselves as Christians because they agree with many of the positive moral teachings that are advertised by the religion, and then to also claim they are for LGBT equality, but they are mislabeling themselves. Looking to the positive side of this controversy, I’m happy to see that issues like this highlight awareness to the hypocrisy that so many individuals adhere to because they haven’t done their homework on the religion they believe in. To me, it is truly an indication of social progress.
I am religious. I believe in equal rights. I also believe marriage is sacred, no matter how many heterosexuals try to screw it up. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. My views are complex. I am not a sheep. I ate at Chick-Fil-A yesterday. It was good. I did so to protest government officials attempting/threatening to penalize a citizen for his religious beliefs. I hope one day for equal rights for everyone everywhere.
Great post, Wayne! I think it’s really important that word gets out that this is not new information, nor is it just about marriage, or Dan Cathy or what he said on the radio. Discrimination is part of Chik-fil-A’s DNA. The company’s founder, S. Truett Cathy was given an award in 2004 from Family First – Nebraska’s splinter of Focus on the Family. This organization doesn’t just oppose marriage equality, they support all forms of anti-LGBT violence and discrimination. I doubt the organization would give someone an “Ambassador Award” if he didn’t support ALL of their crusades. And Chik-fil-A proudly lists this among his many accomplishments on their website!
More on the value of life. To value life you would have to give it some sort of measurement or “value”. So assuming everyone is treated equally and all life holds the same “value” would you give up 1 life to save 1000?
>”We all get categorized very quickly based on the marriage issue and maybe that’s not fair”
>”[When you frequent Chick-fil-A] You’re siding with the bully… And… you cheer him on”
These two statements seem incongruous. I feel like I’ve been categorized very quickly on the CFA issue and maybe that’s not fair.
I resent both sides of this great debate for taking my fun place to eat and turning it into a political arena, polarizing the choice to eat chicken as an alignment with good or evil. Flip it around–let’s say McDonald’s donates $10 million to Marriage Equality USA. Are you going to start eating their solely because of their affiliation? Are you going to start using favorable terms to describe McDonald’s burgers (just as you described CFA as “fatty chicken”) because anything connected to a good company becomes inherently better? Are you going to villify anyone who doesn’t eat there as insensitive and “defenders of the bully?”
I refuse to make political affiliation the sole criterion for my diet, and I refuse to acknowledge anyone who chooses to interpret my diet solely as an act of activism. I’ll take my fight to Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation, and not worry so much about where people choose to dine. That seems like time and money better spent.
Beyond Brilliant…..
Thank you
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i don’t know you but thank you for being you and for writing such a well thought out piece. you make some amazing points and i truly appreciate that.
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Thoughtfully written and beautifully put.
Funny. I don’t see anyone who posted anything like, “I used to hate gays, but thanks to recent events and the wise, compassionate words of Wayne Self my eyes have really been opened and now I am starting to see a bigger picture emerge in which such minor things have actually begun to feel unimportant. There really is nothing wrong with two people being in love and wanting to spend their lives together. What a relief.”
I fear we’re not changing anybody’s mind here.
NAILED IT ON THE HEAD, Brother! No truer words were ever spoken (er, typed).
@Cindy: http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/5989/traditional_marriage%3A_one_man,_many_women,_some_girls,_some_slaves/
and http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=4419
i like what you are saying. great post.http://www.boliche.com.br/email.htm
As far as I am aware the excitement about Chick-Fil-A began when some politicians vowed to use laws and regulations — government power — to prevent the business from opening stores in their cities on account of the opinions of the founder or proprietor. This allowed homophobes to stand on the First Amendment and to mask their hatred with pretended devotion to Constitutional principles. Now that confusion must be addressed, not glossed over, not evaded.
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Wayne,
I am straight, but I understand why you feel the way you do. I agree with you, and I have to say you state your reasoning quite articulately.
I had a grandmother who was gay, born in 1906. Imagine the stigma she endured in her 90 some odd years on Planet Earth. She never openly came out, but when a woman lives with a woman “roommate” for over 50 years in a tiny one bedroom apartment… well hey, do the math! Most of the family never really liked her roomie that much, but that happens among straights just as often! Grandma would not have been shy about it though if any of us had ever asked. She would have simply looked at us and asked up how we felt about it…
SO as you can see I have a personal connection to gay rights issues… I am straight, and proud to support my gay friends. I am not gonna sit back while bullies prevail! Thanks for your post, Wayne.
first….that was amazing, i wish everyone fel that way. second…i believe everyone should be educated on the issue before arguing it. THIRD…… i always felt the bible , when it referred to marriage and laying with not to man and woman , but ”man to man and animal to animal” i grew up in catholic school, and argued with every religion teacher i ever had. i am not ay , i have gay friends tho. i believe the world should ALL BE EQUAL. ROCK ON GUYS
Perfectly put… my heart weeps when I think of the millions out there who are either ignorant and mislead or purposefully intolerant bigots out there raging against this issue which, as you said, they can go home and forget about. They don’t have to live it day in and day out… I stand with you and will share your post. Being in the Northeast, I have never even seen a Chik-fil-A but I intend to speak out to whomever will listen anyways! I have four boys whom have all been raised with tolerance and love and as one of your com mentors said, maybe we can make the next generation better. I know my boys are and in the meantime we’ll continue to fight in the present. All my support!
right on!http://www.maladiretasegmentada.com.br
This logic and rhetoric professor gives you an A plus.
Stated perfectly. This is about human rights for ALL people, and fighting against oppression – whether direct, indirect, intentional or not.
Yes, yes, and yes. This Christian stands with you.
Great post. I have been deleting facebook friends (or so I thought). Now I wished I hadn’t and I could have sent them this. Thank you
I wish you’d remove the sexual innuendo from the title so I can share this with folks who need to hear it the most
love is love, who is anyone to judge? we have a right to be happy just as they do. we don’t stop them from being happy, so why should they, us?
This is a must read for EVERYONE!!
Very well written.
Well said. More broadly, my gay relationships do not affect anyone else’s relationships, so if they wish to prevent legal recognition of my relationship they are bigoted. That is all. As a Christian, I do not understand the US obsession with homosexuality. First take the log from your own eye.
I did take the time to read your thoughts,Wayne. I have to say I have expressed my opinion of Dan Cathy’s opinion, which was to agree to disagree. That was before I read your column. I felt he was entitled to his opinion, and still is. However, acting on that opinion is a different story. I did not know he contributed money to these organizations. I am not gay, but I am the proud sister of an out and proud gay man. I attended their wedding celebration in New York City last November. I remember the awful things he went through, the gay bashing, etc. growing up. To think that there are still people out there that would kill you for who you choose to love is scary, to say the least. I am much interested in your project and look forward to reading about it. Just saying……..
Cindy Joint
good Kharma keeps the wheel turning…
If you were standing here in front of me, I would give you a hug. I have seen SO many different things written on this subject, even wrote one myself, and MOST of them, have been EXTREMELY well written. But let me tell you, WITHOUT A DOUBT, yours is the best one I’ve read. I could feel your pain. I could feel your frustration. While I was reading it reminded me of something I read many, mnay years ago. Basically, it goes something like this: They came out against the Jews, and I didn’t stand up. They came out against the Baptists, and I didn’t stand up. They came out against the Blacks, and I didn’t stand up. When they came out against ME, there was no LEFT to stand up. (Of course, the ACTUAL phrase is MUCH better, it’s been 15+ years since I last read it, but you get the picture).
Again, BEAUTIFUL. Thanks for sharing.
Did you just equate advocating against the privledge for gay couples to get married with advocating for the discrimination of an entire race?
We all heve rights, whether we agree or disagree. CFA has gotten enough publicity out of this entire fiasco. Ridiculous and I am sick of it.
Interesting side note I just found out when listening to Sean Astin’s program on toadhopnetwork.com.
Turns out there’s a lot of misinformation in this story. First of all, Dan Cathy is the COO, not the CEO.
Second…not a dime of Chick-fil-A corporate money has gone to any of the institutions mentioned. The money comes from a charity the Cathys started called the WindShape Foundation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinShape_Foundation ) who is funded solely through donations and the Cathy family.
So in reality, boycotting the company is the wrong target.
Beautiful article. It literally makes me cry that so many good people have to go through such an unfair struggle just so random strangers can sleep better at night.
Boycott Chick-fil-A – show your support for equality. And save a chicken.
Well said. Forwarding to my Prop 8 supporting parents now! Thank you.
~A gay son of holy-rollers
Very well written and thought out post. I have many gay friends and to say I think they are just wrong to be them goes against everything I have ever believed in or been taught. Thank you for putting the whole situation into perspective.
Exactally.
Thanks.
Beth
While I agree with most of the comments as to the composition, thought, and well spoken points you address in this post, I must impress upon all of you to remember we live in a capitalist society, in which anything and everything is business, marketing, and strategy. I have a strong suspicion that this is either a ploy from Chik-Fil-A to get national attention and thus free advertising (say what you want about negative attention, advertisement is advertisement), or a strategy played out by a competitor. Do not follow the grain. Look, read, study, and think for yourselves. It’s the only way we will truly change the world.
-A
“The Founder of Chick-fil-A has that right, the same way that I have the right to tell someone that they should not be fearful of the Gay community.”
I have felt for many, many years. Live and let live.
But things have changed now, and I am steadily becoming antagonistic to the Gay community and ALL its proponents. Trying to jam your lifestyle on others through thuggery is a sure way to create hatred and bigotry against you where none existed originally. “Nothing to fear” from the Gay Community?” What a joke, what a laugh. Tell that to the BSA, who have had a SUPREME COURT DECISION that they can choose with whom they wish to associate. That wasn’t GOOD ENOUGH for the “GAY COMMUNITY” who has made it their mission in life to destroy that venerable institution. NOTHING TO FEAR? Really?
Tell that to CFA. Or the people who had their PERSONAL INFORMATION, ADDRESSES, NAMES OF THEIR CHILDREN outed by the Queer Nation when those people supported Prop 8 in CA.
Yes, people have A LOT TO FEAR from you now. Once I was your friend, now, you have taught me that I cannot be your friend, because by your stubborn, intolerant, hateful, bigoted, HETEROPHOBIC
actions, YOU MADE ME an enemy.
I tried to find any support for your claim that the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation are trying to make homosexuality illegal or punishable by death. The one thing I did uncover was a story about them lobbying in regards to a U.S. bill to condemn a Ugandan law. In that case, they were trying to influence verbiage not kill the bill. Could you provide some support for your claims that doesn’t have a militant or partisan source?
I must second the opinions of several posts that point out how your article ignored the statements of the mayors of Chicago, Boston, and D.C., statements that are clearly attempts to intimidate and stifle free speech.
Most people took part in yesterday’s protests specifically because they feel social and governmental pressure mounting to silence their professions of faith.
May I ask a few questions, kind of unrelated to chick fila, as a person that does not boycott chick fila, but would not go to a chick fila ‘support day’ either?
1) Let me ask the hard question. Don’t you have the same rights under a civil union? Is this all because you want to call it “Marriage” and not “Civil Union”? Is having to call it something different making you feel unequal?
2) Jumping to another issue, think about the Boy Scouts for a moment. The scouts change clothes, they share tents on camping trips, they shower in the locker room. Should a same sex oriented scout be allowed to be in those places? If it were a girl should the girl be allowed to share a tent with the boy? Share the shower? What’s the difference? At what point can we not call it “Boy Scouts” anymore if there are girls involved? I think this principle is what most people don’t understand and is standing in the way.
3) How does that difference relate to marriage? ie, at what point is the boy scouts no longer boy scouts, and at what point is marriage no longer marriage?
I’m all for equal rights, but this “difference” is what needs to be addressed. (I’m sorry I don’t have a better word for it) And I truly do not mean to offend, laws about ‘getting fired’ and ‘being illegal’ need to be abolished.
@Owldolatrous, there is no explicit commandment in the bible that is “marriage shall be between one man and one woman”, however, in 100% of the references to marriage it is always between a man and a woman (or women). The ponderousness evidence shows that the thought that a marriage could be any other way is so far removed from the minds of the authors to warrant an implicit directive to such that a marriage is entirely between a man and a woman. Furthermore, the scriptures that outline same-sex relations are forbidden also exclude it from be a possible combination for a marriage.
I can to your page via a friend who is your friend (I suppose or a friend of a friend, we all know how FB works). I’ve read your article and I understand your perspective. I’m a libertarian who’s also a devote evangelical Christian. So it is pretty fair to say I would hold the same position that the CEO did. Unlike my peers, however, I have a different position on the entire topic. I do not believe the government has the right to determine what a marriage is. I believe that everything should be contractual and people(s) should be able to enter into legal agreements as they see fit. You, me, my peers, anyone could form a group that shares rights, we determine what our rights are between us, not the government. I believe the movement to get same sex marriage simply implicitly admits that the government has the authority to determine what the rights are between adults who wish to enter in to agreements.
) Don’t care, I wouldn’t ever want to force someone to work with me if they don’t like Christians – I’d prefer be fired because I was a Christian than ruin someone’s day every day just by showing up. Hey, if I’m the better than everyone else they’d looked at and they pass me up, that just means they handed their competitor a BETTER employee (how stupid is that?) But I don’t begrudge anyone doing so (and, although it hasn’t happened much, I’ve been shut out of bids because I’m not “part of the community” when seeking minority business – I’m fine with that)
However, because of the way the government has evolved and the rights we’ve surrendered to the government *and* the protections the government provides to classes of people *and* the restrictions to people’s freedom in dealing with groups of people, my conservative peers do not wish to be forced into relationships with people who practice what they find offensive (more on this later). See, I’m going to get “hater” labels for this, but I don’t believe anyone should be forced to associate with anyone else they don’t want to provided they aren’t working for the government (the government should always be neutral). I don’t care if it is based on skin, gender, faith, nationality, sexuality or hair color (and I’m a ginger!) What right does anyone have to force their presence upon another? However, since the government grants protective status to groups of people and then punishes people for not falling in line, I understand people’s resistance to additional protections being extended to the homosexual groups. This essentially forces one group’s beliefs upon another (it doesn’t matter if one group’s is right or wrong, it is still force, coercion, which is doubly offensive). Sadly, in this instance, there is no middle ground because it is an either-or situation, beyond removing the power of the government to regulation personal relationships someone will have their rights trampled upon. I also believe (being a business owner) I should be able to hire/fire anyone for any reason at any time. Now, I’m agnostic when it comes to earning money, I’ll work with whomever is the best person for the job – but if some owners wanted to dump a person because they don’t like black people, great, if that person is a superstar, that is one more superstar going to a business who wants to work with the best. Same for gays. (or fat white middle aged guys
(the more part) – I believe you probably know this, but I’ll write it anyway as I believe this is a chasm difference between groups around this issue. My side sees gays as people who participate/practice a behavior that we find offensive for whatever reason (although usually due to values, religious beliefs, etc). We do not identify with being heterosexual like homosexuals do their gayness. We don’t go to “hetero” bars, gyms, AA meetings, clubs, etc. We don’t patronize establishments because the specifically target heteros. We see our sexuality as natural, normal and the way it should be, but we don’t identify with it. I don’t have “hetero” friends, I just have friends. Likewise, if I had a bunch of gay friends, I’d reference them by my “gay” friends. Same even with bisexual friends. (these are my “bi-”friends). Actually, I still call the people who’ve come out and are my friends as my friends, but I hope you understand the point I’m trying to get across. From what I understand, homosexuals fiercely identify their being with their sexuality – it is who you are to your core. That difference of perspective is seeing the same thing in a very different way (behaviors, from our point of view, are optional – being gay to the core is, from yours, not a behavior but just who you are) As you said, deeply personal.
I do understand the anger and personal nature of what my side does and how it impacts you. And I really wish it was some other way, unfortunately, with the laws and forced association and business laws and regulations, in the end, we’re fighting the government’s rules as to what normalization will force us to fund/participate/do/silence us/etc. We see stories about pastors being arrested for preaching from the bible in other countries were homosexuality is protected and speaking against it is a hate crime. See, my side will go to war over that, just as your side has been at war trying to get the government’s acknowledgement of your sexuality.
I just wish there was another way; I couldn’t possibly care less what other people do with themselves. I neither hate them and, actually, unlike many of my peer’s state, I don’t give a crap about the behavior either. It’s God’s rules, not mine; I abide in the rules for me because I accept them because I’ve accepted Him. If you don’t, that isn’t my problem. If you ask me what the rules are, I’ll tell you, even if it is offensive – and I just don’t think I should risk going to jail doing so.
That is the end result our side sees with this, that eventually, not by you or the people doing it now, but in the future generations, that speech against homosexuality will be considered hate speech. One thing we identify with, to our core, as very personal, is our faith. If it is threatened, like I said prior, we’ll go to war over that.
I do hope my ramblings (not as well planned out or laid out as yours) give you some insight in to how my side sees things and thinks – and how one libertarian/Christian sees things.
Peace
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The Chick-Fil-A debacle was the tipping point that made me lose my brother–he and I are no longer on speaking terms. I’m likely damaging the relationship with my own mom because of it–she wants us to put aside our differences and get along for the sake of family unity.
I refuse to sit down and be silenced on something so deeply important to me. I’m just thankful I have friends that love me and support me so much, or I don’t know how I would weather this storm.
i do not care how well this is written. I support the Chicken place. I do strongly believe in marriage between a Woman and a Man. This world is going to Hell in a handbasket, and in a hurry. I stand up for what I believe, even if this means I stand alone. There are far more pressing issues in this country. Politically correctness got us were we are today.Wake up folks, let;s not forgett the real issues here, watch the politicians more carefully, and quit getting of on being sidetracked.
I knew only seconds into the read that you are a professional writer and that it came directly from your heart. I’m not a gay man and have not always been sympathetic to the rights gay people do not have. Well I was wrong and I believe more and more of us are just now realizing how wrong we were. I learned a long time ago that if you don’t stand up for something you stand against it. If people who think the way the people at Chick-Fil-A think are not corrected who will they go after next?
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Love this!! Thanks for sharing <3
[...] Chick-fil-A donated $5 million to organizations who are trying to make homosexuality a CRIME. As in, if you're gay you go to jail. Hate like that should not be funded. I'm sorry that you think it's only about a chicken sandwich or religion. Read this well-written column to get a different perspective: The Chick Fellatio: stuck in the craw | Owldolatrous Productions [...]
Wayne, first and foremost, I thank God for the talent he has given you.
Your article reaches out to people without using any of the hyperbole many of us are so tired of in this chicken drama. It asks firmly, but lovingly, for the reader to ‘be’ you and your partner for a minute.
I think the effect of your blog on straight readers must be much greater (if they truly stop, close their eyes and imagine what you ask) because we straights don’t have to face the same issues that you do; day in and day out. We are fortunate to be ‘accepted’ as ‘normal’ by those in the CFA lines (their words, not mine) and don’t have to worry about being tormented, jeered, arrested or beaten to death when traveling (abroad or otherwise). To those of us that are straight and married, the question is abstract. “Really”, I thought, “when is the last time I wondered if/when/how I could declare my commitment to my husband publicly? I haven’t thought about that since we got married – I just take it for granted.” And that’s the rub, isn’t it? Why is it different for you and Cody? It shouldn’t be.
I can’t think of a single constrained reading of Matthew that would support such anger, such dismissal by those of us who contend we follow the teachings of Jesus. Those red-letter passages? That’s Jesus talking! When asked “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Thank you for reminding, teaching, and helping your friends and your guests. Bless you and Cody (and the rest of your family).
Have only eaten there once before, but will make sure I do not ever again. Thanks for bringing to my attention.
TY for this wonderful and very informative message. I am so glad I was provided with this link. To say I am shocked about the hatred that continues in this world is putting it mildly. I personally have boycotted ALL Fast Food business for years. Mostly due to animal cruelty, destruction of Rainforest, that is caused by mass consumption of these Fast Food chains. Last but not least my campaign against GMO’s. Now I have yet another reason. I can honestly say I have never set foot in a Chic-Fil-A as they came after my crusade began.
Thanks again for enlightening more.
“Imagine” by John Lennon
There are actually several places in the New Testament (and Old Testament) where it very clearly says homosexuality is wrong. Jesus loves everyone but He always says ‘go and sin no more’. Being gay is not a sin, but Acting on it is and always has been in the Church, this isn’t some new view.
Very well-written, non-inflammatory response to this issue. I will definitely repost it in the hopes that some of my friends see it.
Maybe so many countries have being gay illegal because being gay is wrong.
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/bible-verses-about-marriage-20-great-scripture-quotes/
Question: Do you also support business owners who want to exercise their right to allow smokers to smoke in their business or would you discriminate against them? In some states it is illegal to smoke in privately owned businesses due to mob rule (i.e. democracy). I am not saying that you are against smoking in restaurants. Maybe you are or maybe you are not but I would ask all of the liberally minded “tolerant” people who read this well written blog how much they exercised or would exercise their right to stop people from smoking in restaurants. The door of allowing people to do what they want as long as it has no bearing on others swings both ways. Just some food for thought. Thanks.
excellent post. fascinating reading. i’d be happy to have you submit your article links for any future postings such as these you feel might be useful for your readership.http://www.maladiretasegmentada.com.br
Well Said!
you just can’t live your life worrying about where your money goes folks, it’s been everywhere you can think of, just like the water you drank today.
WOW!!! Just loved this. I did not join the movement yesterday because I didn’t feel it was about our First Amendment Rights as much as being against same sex marriage. I have friends whom are gay, I have friends who’s children or siblings are gay and I support them and I support you and your beliefs.
This is probably the most “matter-of-fact” blog that I have read so far. When I realized what was happening yesterday, that churches and politicians were TELLING people to go support this fast food chain, I was sick to my stomach. I am a Christian. I have taught Sunday school. But what I teach is that God loves everyone. Jesus hung out with “undesirables.” And no one is perfect. Everyone sins. I really hope people with tattoos weren’t eating at Chick-fil-a yesterday! Or women who were on their monthly cycle…because then they should have been cast out! This isn’t about gay marriage, the biblical definition of marriage, or the first amendment. This is about a company that uses its profits to fund groups that have legitimately been labeled “hate groups”. The head of Chick-fil-a should be able to say whatever he wants, yes. But should we continue to allow him to give MILLIONS of dollars to groups that are ACTIVELY trying to “cure” people by putting them in prison, throwing them out of communities, and advocating hate crimes? No. No, we shouldn’t. And we should be ashamed.
Of course, you could always rename it to.. wait for it… The Chick-Fil-A Show.
Excellent article, I applaud your clear thinking and eloquent expression. Congratulations on your enduring relationship and best to you always.
You’re amazing. Thank you for writing this article.
Very well said. I shared. Thank you!
Congratulations on making sense out of nonsense.
I would be proud to be your friend.
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Well written post. Much of what you’ve written I agree with. Some things I don’t.
What would help your credibility on this issue is if you gave references for an actual link from Chick Fil A revealing that they are in fact giving money to organizations that are actually suppressing people’s rights rather than just spreading a Christian message (I know the two may not be separable in some cases). You imply it and even estimate numbers, but no link to a credible source. This is really the main thrust of your argument and deserves a stronger defense. Can you actually show that Chick Fil A gives money directly to Family Marriage Counsel and so on? These are serious allegations with serious implications you are bringing up. I’m not saying they aren’t true, but the seriousness of them requires you back it up. In a court of law, the argument you’ve given is laughable so far, because you give no real data or source – it’s all conjecture.
That said, if you can link (give actual names of the organizations and actual representations of their actions to suppress your rights and others) Chick Fil A to these groups you would have quite an argument.
Otherwise I have to take your word for it, and let’s be honest here, this is the internet.
I won’t say a whole lot but I will say that what you wrote is incredibly touching and i’m going to post a link everywhere I can. I was already fighting for LGBT rights but this was so wonderful how can I not share?
Well said dear!
An excellent post. Well done.
[...] 2 2012 0 Comments I don’t usually get too political here on the blog, but I came across a fabulous article about this Chik-fil-a issue today on my Twitter feed and I couldn’t resist sharing it with you guys. Yes, I know I am [...]
@Cindy
You are absolutely entitled to your religious beliefs, however it would serve you well to realize and understand that America is NOT a theocratic nation. Not everyone believes the same religious principles that you do- each and every one of us has the freedom to choose our own faith. Having said that, religious doctrine plays no part in legal matters, nor should it. We do not live under Sharia law in the U.S.
If you disagree with gay marriage due to tenets of your faith, well, that’s your right and your prerogative. But it is unfair to expect that everyone in the U.S. who has just as much right as you do should have to follow your faith and your faith alone. Tolerance and respect are two way streets.
Very well said! I live in the Boston area. I also have many family/friends who are homosexual. I TRIED to explain that 1) Mayor Menino is not PREVENTING CFA from putting one of their restaurants on the Freedom Trail, he just suggested in his letter to Mr. Cathay that it would be better for him NOT to put a restaurant there because of his contributions to those hate groups! Also, the whole thing about marriage really bothers me. When the gov’t started having folks buy a license to wed, it made it a CIVIL issue, and therefore NOT a religious issue! If the “religious” folks don’t want to have weddings at their houses of worship then FINE, DOn’t allow them! But PLEASE! Don’t deny the CIVIL RIGHTS of those (homosexuals) that happen to want the same rights while being together as those who aren’t homosexual! That is WHY Obama changed his stance on DOMA! The constitutional advisers told him that it wouldn’t stand up in court! It’s ILLEGAL to deny RIGHTS! Here’s the other thing that bothers me so much: GOD did NOT write the bible! MEN DID! (and a VERY FEW women!) Oddly enough, MANY writings weren’t included in the bible (altho they DID EXIST) BECAUSE they weren’t in sync with the thoughts of the “elders” of “the church”! I could go on and on about that, but I won’t. Those who have studied know the truth. Those who haven’t will cherry pick what they need to support their thoughts. I just seriously hope that the “age of enlightenment” is once again upon us! Otherwise, I feel REALLY sorry for future generations….
This is a beautifully written article. My friends are my friends because they are kind, smart, loving, consideatre and funny. I don’t look beyond that. My Christian friends are ones who live Jesus and His true example of how to be a loving person. Pain, anger and hatred do not have a place in my life. Nor does any economic institution which promotes those feelings. Bring on the beef.
I am an active supporter of LGBT rights including gay marriage. When someone throws the religious argument in my face I remind them of the importance of Separation of Church and State. Because married couples recieve legal benefits such as Survivors Benefits, health benefits, and tax benefits, marriage is no longer a solely religious institution in this country and should be available to all Americans.
My response to learning that Dan Cathy donates millions of dollars to organizations that promote violence towards gays is this. If he donated the same amount to the Taliban or Al-Quida(sp?), then not only would he never open another CFA again, but he’d probably be in jail and no one would be arguing about a mayor’s right to keep his business out of their city.
I think it’s time people started facing the real facts and stopped clouding the issue with Free Speech and religion. The truth is this: a very wealthy man uses the profits from his business to fund groups who openly work to disenfranchise and violently punish a group of people who’ve been around since before Christ’s time.
heya. great work. i hope you keep this pace and write more articles. success.http://www.acertemail.com
Beautiful post. And beautiful pictures of you and your loved one, 18 years ago and now.
I wonder why it’s ok for “pro-family” groups to boycott Oreos, JcPenneys, and other companies for being supportive of same sex marriage and same sex relationships, but it’s not ok for people to boycott in the reverse?
I was sick to my stomach yesterday, seeing people I’m friends with on FB posting pics of either being at CFA or just general pics of CFA and the lines. It makes me sad that people would make a point of hating so much.
I will continue to support same sex relationships and same sex marriages. May you both be welcome in your home state very soon.
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I love the article. Can I make one suggestion? I’m afraid those who really need to hear what you have to say won’t because of the word “fellacio.” Yes, yes, I know it’s funny, I laughed myself. But what you’ve written is too good to keep to ourselves (those of us who already agree with you). I’ve posted it on 2 friends walls but I’m afraid they’ll delete it because of the title.
I totally support you! I want to post this on my timeline.
I came to your site through a friend’s FB post. Thank you. This was well worded and answers the question without hesitation. I stopped eating at Chik-Fi-La quite awhile ago, but that was more because as a Jew I didn’t quite feel comfortable in a store that was so overtly, in your face with their Christianity. It seemed more like they were hiding something than they were happy to help and as though they were looking for a reason for me to be “not like them” than to be just another customer. It wasn’t a true boycott, more of a “if there’s another option I’d rather eat there” type of boycott. After hearing about the donations and the comments, however, that chikin sandwich is not going to be one that is purchased by my family while I am with them. Sorry, not happening.
Look, every company has their “dirty little secrets”, especially the companies that are not public. It happens. But to be so overtly opposed to someone else’s rights in a country that is supposed to be the City on the Hill – the Light for the rest of the world and to work hard ($5M is hard even for a millionaire) to support people trying to criminalize a way a person was born and chooses to live is just WRONG.
Thank you again for writing such a well worded piece. Y’all have my unwavering support.
This is absolutely wonderful. I live south of Atlanta where there is a CFA on every corner. Seeing many friends stating not only their support for CFA, but their agreement with anti-gay policies just saddens me ever so. Thank you for this, I will be sure to share it
This post is wonderful – absolutely great – except for the title, which is unnecessary and off-putting. I’d love to post it on facebook and see lots of people read it. Could you please change the title, or post a version with a different title?
I understand the objection. I will do it, but it will probably be tomorrow.
Very well said. I hope that one day soon, everyone can be married to the person they love. I would be pretty damn mad if someone told me I couldn’t marry my husband, and I will keep fighting until everyone is as lucky as I am.
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Well written but it is everyones God given right to say and do what they want in this country. If KFC wanted to do that so be it. You and I both know we would never throw someone in jail for being homosexual. I’m taking the word gay back, it meant happy when I grew up. And you ask a Christian business owner who closes his resturants on Sunday’s what he thinks about homosexual marriges and you act surprised and outraged when you don’t like his answer. Sounds to me that these homosexual groups are just agitators looking for exposure. When will people learn that there is no such thing as bad publicity. If they would just except his beliefs and be quiet none of this would be going on. The more people blog, post, twit, or whatever the more we become divided.
The young girl’s response was spot on…”Jesus would have gone to the park with all his gay friend’s and had a picnic”, rather than go to a CFA appreciation day. He would have showered them in His love, and told them, “now go, and sin no more”.
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast
to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
[...] this Chick Fil A thing after all. Then, two things happened almost simultaneously. First, I read this. And I was blown away. Then as I was mulling that over, Jack came and asked me if we could go to [...]
Very well said, and I hope very well heard, thought deeply about on, and acted opon with great compassion and stamina.
Excellent! I hope this reaches and resonates with many, or at least some of the people who choose to eat at and support Chick-Fil-A.
I loved this article and posted it on FB, where numerous friends have reposted it. However, it has about 3 glaring typos in the first paragraph. Please fix them?
Very civil piece…..unfortunately America has lost as much of its’ civility as as result of the selective reading of the Constitution becomes more and more obvious and the failure of “OUR” government to provide an environment for the “pursuit of life,liberty and JUSTICE FOR ALL.
1. In 29 states, everyone is terminable at will; someone can be fired for being heterosexual or having blue eyes. What’s being asked for is protected status (like race & age). 2. In many countries, a woman can be jailed for showing her face; policies of backwardass countries aren’t a good reference (esp when such countries aren’t typically Christian & Jesus’ position is being cited later). 3. If KFC was punished by the government for such suggested stances (as those elitist mayors tried to suggest doing), I would be pleased to see people flock to defend their rights. To me, people are jumping on the Chick-Fil-A wagon the same way more people went out to see Batman the day after or when England saw an increase in public transportation the day after the 7-7 terrorism…to show that such actions won’t succeed or intimidate. 4. I never liked that chicken and I’m all for committed gay couples receiving all the benefits of committed heterosexual couples…but not more (like protected status). And believe it or not, I have yet to have even a single one of my upper middle-class friends disagree. But mark my words – once a version of it is permitted, when a private organization or business tries to throw a heterosexual married couple only event, lawsuits will follow…and then who will be treading on whom?
This is exactly the point I have been making to folks who choose to discuss this issue with me. It is not about free speech, it is about basic civil rights for all Americans. The majority of Americans have no idea where the money they spend at various businesses around the country actually goes. I stopped frequenting many businesses due to their lack of social responsibility because I took the time to research their donation practices. I have chosen to spend money with companies who champion equality. All it takes is a few minutes to learn about where your money goes.
I so agree with you. I have 2 gay uncles, 3 gay aunts, and several gay cousins. I have a bisexual sister as well. I have posted many things on my facebook account regarding this issue. I personally hate Chick- fil- a. The food is nasty. I dont think its right to judge someone for who they love. If judgement should be casted down, it should be casted down on those who are in the wrong. I dont believe in wrong doing but I believe that down grading someone for loving the same sex is wrong. Not meaning any wrong when I say this, but gay guys are AMAZING! I am married and I have a gay friend, and he knows exactly what to say to make me laugh. I received a letter from facebook threatening to ban me for a comment that I posted about the whole situation. But because I believe in a completely different perspective then others, my voice is being cut short. I will gladly stick beside you guys through thick and then and fight for what is right. I love the fact that you guys have been happily together over 18 years and never once let them get to you. Live and Love with all you have and never let another tell you otherwise.
Interesting that while I agree with what you’re saying I didn’t exactly agree with the content of your post. It seems more like a call to arms in protest of Chickfila. I think the stronger argument that will be more difficult for the CFA supporters to respond to is “do you support discrimination?” That’s exactly what this is, to say a group of people are not due the same rights as another group of people is the definition of discrimination. And by patronizing an organization that openly supports groups working for discrimination you are indirectly supporting discrimination. You are dead on this isn’t about free speech I’m not saying anyone doesn’t have the right to feel that way, I’m just saying by feeling that way you are supporting discrimination. The best description I heard yesterday was that it was a “parade of hate.” The fact that people felt compelled to show up in masses is a pretty sad statement on society.
For the past few weeks one of my old friends from high school has been posting about her support of Chik-fil-A. Her comments have really been an issue with me, but she was seemingly very stuck in her ways. Then she posted this article, describing it as a “gut check”. Your words have changed someones stance on this whole situation. That is very powerful. Thank you.
First, let me thank you for posting this. This was very well written.
I was also very hurt yesterday to see many of my friends and family out supporting CFA. It really hurts to know that the people who you thought were close to you really do not feel the same.
Very well said, and I hope very well heard. I hope that people not only hear this message but take it to hart and act on it with compassion and grace. Fighting discrimination is never easy, but it is harder to live with the knowledge of knowing in your hart you needed to stand up and be counted, but chose instead to do what is comfortable and easy. It is not just out of self interest that I fight for these things and encourage you to do the same. We are each responsible for the legacy we leave behind. I want to feel good about that legacy and I want you to as well.
( this may be a double or triple post, but I want to be sure all my friends get this message )
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you guys all sound absolutely ridiculous. In case you haven’t noticed, nobody is ‘free’ in this country anymore so why is it we keep hearing whining and crying from gay people every stinking day. I have gay friends so don’t get me wrong, but none of them are always complaining about how they are oppressed and discriminated against. wha wha wha. live your life and stop taking up space on the news and on facebook about how you are all not allowed to do stuff, bla bla bla.
I will stand up for you and I DO delete facebook friends who post support of any bigot. In my opinion they are just as much one. This is not an issue that I am willing to agree to disagree on. If you don’t believe in equal rights for ALL human beings then, no, I don’t want to be your friend…at all…ever. I couldn’t agree more with every point you have made here. Being a bigot is NOT “christian.” It’s ignorant…nothing more. Okay, maybe a little mean too.
i seem to remember that a certain legislator threatened to revoke the food license of the resto in his state due to the CEO’s political flap…i.e. on the basis of his activism and/or “free speech” exercise.
Also, specific population (gay) rights are not the same as equal rights. Affirmative action and free speech are very different. One is an entitlement, the latter is a right. The author intermixes the two as if they are two apples from the same tree.
Both omissions detract from an otherwise good article
To answer your question about where in the Bible it commands marriage between a man and a woman: Leviticus 18:22 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Sex and marriage aren’t identical, as anyone who’s been married can attest.
But please see my earlier reply. We don’t make laws in this country based on what the Bible calls abominable. If we did, our diets would be very different, as would our haircuts, farming practices, and clothing choices. The only place where we really make a point to enforce “God’s law” on these “abominations” seems to be where LGBT people are concerned. We’re tired of being singled out.
If you want us to live according to Leviticus, why don’t you go first? You can start by leaving town during your menstrual period. (Leviticus 15:19-30)
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Beautifully and wonderfully written.
I read every word and sat in thought for more than 30 minutes before typing out this comment. I must say, your article is well written and makes some great points, but it totally misses the point of yesterday’s “support” of CFA. This article does a pretty good job explaining the point:
http://maxgrace.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/diversitys-intolerance-of-chick-fil-a/
What prompted yesterday’s CFA event was abuse of political power. If Boston’s mayor hadn’t used his position to declare the restaurant “unwelcome,” if Chicago’s Alderman Joe Moreno hadn’t said he would use his power to block CFA in his city, and if those cheering them on would have instead said, “We don’t like what CFA stands for but it’s not right for government officials to get involved like this,” yesterday’s events wouldn’t have happened.
I read your entire post. You have made some good points.
You asked, “Please direct me to the place where God commands marriage between one man and one woman.”
Here is one of several options –
Matthew 19:4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
Cindy: There are 12 basic, explicit rules in the bible regarding the definition of marriage, which includes polygamy, rape, incest and slavery; are those things you support? The very foundation of our nation is the notion of liberty, equality and freedom for all Americans — people supporting Chick-Fil-A, Dan Cathy, Mike Huckabee and others like them are not only going against biblical scripture, they are going against the founding principles of our Constitution and nation. To support Chick-Fil-A, Dan Cathy and Mike Huckabee is to support ignorance, bigotry, hate and the sad and unfortunate violence that derives from their words and actions. This is my take on the matter: “Hate Appreciation Day: A Sad Day in America:” http://outintothewilds.blogspot.com/2012/08/hate-appreciation-day-sad-day-in-america.html
Beautiful. Thank you.
I hate this debate. It stirs up so much hatred, but I love your words.
I think of the woman caught in adultery, and the religious people flinging her at Jesus, pushing him to judge her, to kill her.
His response, so calm, so wise and loving, asking only if they were sin free to cast judgement…
This whole thing makes my heart so heavy. Thanks again for your words.
I appreciate them, and you.
Amy
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What an awesome article!! If everyone, who claims to be Christian & a human being, would just remember Jesus’ teachings! ” You must love your Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, & your whole mind, and to treat others as you would have them treat you”, was His response, when asked by a follower “what are the greatest of the Ten Commandments?”! We would not even be discussing this…but, unfortunately, it has come to this!
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[...] Wayne Self says everything I wanted to say, but much, much better. « You Didn’t Build [...]
@ Pat, but if you view gay marriage a sin like drug addiction as Cindy says her son is, if she still loves him(which I’m sure she does), must she fight to change the drug laws in America?
I was looking for these words… eloquent …. true …. important! Thank you SO much for providing this perfect response… for all of us who couldn’t say it quite so well. Do you have a blog or something .. I would definitely follow it.
@Cindy ~ The reality is you can not prove that a book written by jews is the word of God. You just can’t, so stop imposing what you choose to believe on others as other people are not trying to do that to you!! The problem with some people is they can’t see the forest for the trees!
I made a post on my blog earlier trying to say something along the lines of what you’ve said here, but I was not nearly as successful. Thank you.
You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:22
One simple sentence silences your entire post, sorry.
I guess that particular verse makes lesbianism ok. Would it be ok if a lesbian had posted it?
Let’s look the rest of the abominations in the Bible, shall we?
Leviticus 11:10-12 – And all that have not fins and scales in the sease, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an ABOMINATION unto you.
There are similar prohibitions against shaving, wearing mixed fibers, and planting your fields with mixed crops.
Unless you’re going around calling invalid the POLITICAL, NOT RELIGIOUS rights, arguments, and claims of everyone who has ever engaged in these other abominable practices, then I invite you to rethink your priorities.
“You mean more to me than KFC possibly could.”
I love this line.
And this one, “There are times in your life when you have the opportunity to stand up for your friends. When you let that opportunity pass, your friends notice. It doesn’t mean we can’t be friends, but it diminishes you, and it diminishes the friendship.”
I will stand up for my friends. I will bycott.
I admit you bring up some points I had not considered. Personally I had considered it a freedom of opinion argument, you have your opinion and Dan Cathy has his. I viewed this as a basic right to have opinions in the US and we are lucky to have that choice.
This article is ridiculous, because the fact is that the issue is that the mayor of Boston and other PUBLIC officials are not allowing this company to open up for service in their cities. This company has never discriminated against anyone in it’s hiring or serving actions. It has never broken the law, therefore it should be allowed to operate a business. If people wish to boycott it, or eat more, than that is their business, not the governments! It’s about free speech and peoples’s freedom to buy or not buy.
I really appreciate your having taken the time to put your thoughts into words. Thank you.
Spot on! Your well written words sent chills down my spine. This essay really should be a part of history/current events class to be shared and discussed in our schools.
You words will not be forgotten by me nor mine. Sharing will be a pleasure. Thank you
XX
Shelly Young
Great post!!!
I hate to say this because your post was incredibly touching, but I’m sorry the teachings of homosexuality in scripture is far from “misguided”…
However, everything else you have to say is absolutely right. As an American citizen you should have the right to legally bind yourself to whoever wants to legally bind his/herself to you. And as Christians, the opposition should not display hatred. Chick-fil-A’s contribution to anti-gay laws is inexcusable.
Please know that commenting now is a Christian that cares about you as well as the rest of the gay population. Given my stance on your lifestyle, I understand if you don’t care.
Bravo – this is the first time I’ve seen an article that summarizes my thoughts on this so concisely. Thank you.
Good on ya, mate!!
Just wanted to say that this was a very well thought out and reasoned post. I personally will not frequent CFA and in an attempt to help with the cause we have published an article about 5 other alternatives to CFA: http://flapship.com/guilt-free-alternatives-to-chick-fil-a/
CFA can think and say what they want, but we also have the right to criticize what they say.
So well said. Thank you. And, I love what Lou said.
Hey this is a good looking site, is wordpress? Forgive me for the foolish question but if so, what theme is? Thanks!
Bigots will be bigots. And right now, a lot of self-righteous bigots are eating
Chick-Fil-A sandwiches.
I agree with all your points. But those who did not agree before reading this, will not agree after reading it. They will scoff at the comparison to racial prejudice.
The root of the issue is whether you believe that being gay is a choice or not.
If you believe that you cannot choose your sexual orientation any more than you can choose you race or skin color, then everything falls into place and all your points are undeniably valid.
If you think sexual orientation is a choice, it will be hard for you to ever understand the above perspective.
I couldn’t be of a big of a person as you, to remain friends with those on FB who support CFA. I defriended those who went public by posting, “YAY FOR CFA APPRECIATION DAY!!!” because I can’t stand their hypocrisy. It disgusted me. Every friend I defriended, it seemed like I know some past that they have that violates the Bible (stealing? Divorcees? Premarital sex?) in one way or another.
Thank you for this article. I really think that this is just going to go into the pile of shame for the history of our country along with slavery, segregation, interracial marriage, women’s rights, and witch trials. History repeats itself in one way or another. Only a few of us can be smarter than that.
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Wayne, this puts my own feelings so perfectly into words. I applaud you for this amazing post but also for making the points about empathy and loyalty. That’s how you win ignorant people over. Anger makes those people defensive but appealing to their basic human heart and nature is the way to go! A+!
You rock (and I assume your partner does as well)! As a heterosexual female with more than a few gay friends (I’m a thespian as well), I admire and impressed by how sensibly you state your case (I tend to get all defensive and emotional). But, the bottom line, as you is, which is more important: friendship or a chicken sandwich? And you are soooo correct in saying it’s “easy” to overlook this happening to LGBT people, but what if it went further ~ by race or reliogion (like THAT’s never happened before). I don’t even know you and I am soooo proud of you! I’m going to repeat myself: you rock!
Well said, Wayne.
Where a fellow American (or human being anywhere for that matter) is being discriminated against we all have a duty – a civic, moral and human imperative to find out what is going on and the resulting impact, then pick a side and act on it.
Sports is where there is no right or wrong side and where choosing a side cannot result in harm to someone else. We can opt out or choose a team based upon regional pride, club membership or uniform colors — and after the game, we all can go to work, love who we want and live our lives the best we are able.
Superb, eloquent, beautiful…I could go on. Thank you from the bottom of my gay heart!
I would like to thank everyone that don’t protest my products even though I was an Anti-Semite and was part of many groups through out my career that supported these views. Thanks for enjoying Disney World/Land, the cartoons, and movies my company produces.
Sincerely,
Walt Disney
Your words are great and could possibly touch some people with the logic. Thank you for taking the time to put this into words that are logical and well layed out. However, the title will be enough to stop many of the people who need to read this. I think you want those to the right on this issue to read this. It would do you, and many others well, if you changed the title. I know this sounds silly….but really…a right-leaning person would not read this based on the fact that the word fellatio is in the title. And you really want the right-leaning peope to read this….and you want to touch their hearts and brains. Please change the title so that I can post and get some of my fundamentalist Christian friends to read it.
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The link back to you has the title…..so that does not work.
[...] post is in response to The Chick Fellatio: stuck in the craw by Wayne Self at his site Owldolatrous. Not sure if he’ll read it, but if you want to [...]
Such a well-written account of many of my feelings and beliefs related to this issue. Regarding #4, I’ve witnessed this be incredibly true….We are a family with disabilities….my husband and I are little people. Many people have questioned our choice to love and have a family. My gay friends and families have been among our strongest supporters. I’m not now or ever going to let them down in return.
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I hope you agree that this quote seems to fit as it is one of my favorites. Stay positive and keep writing. I certainly love what you said!
”He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
I loved this part “This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t. There is no “live and let live” on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.” That is brilliant and I will totally use that argument when it comes to agree to disagree.
Wonderful post; well reasoned and well written.
It’s a shame the world is not more tolerant but change is coming. It just moves very slowly as was demonstrated on 8-1-2012. One or two more generations should bring about the repeal of all anti-gay laws in this country.
Good sir, You’ve gotten enough praise–every syllable earned!–via this commentary, so I won’t bore you with more; I shall say only this, get that damned play up to Minneapolis as rapidly as you can. The folks at the Guthrie have abundant stages available, but our theater scene is as vibrant as any outside of New York or LA. Please come see us, and tell us your story. I would be most happy to coordinate efforts with folks on this end.
I appreciate you thought out post. But this whole thing is so ridiculously blown out of proportion. First the media blew Mr Cathy’s comments out of proportion. He was supporting the Biblical definition of marriage. He never actually said anything about gay marriage. Further the Marriage and Family Intitute is not in operation to solely fight gay rights. They also support filters for Internet in public libraries, fight river boat gambling, fight abortion and partial birth abortion, helped pass the student freedom of religion act, helped pass a bill that requires parental concent for abortion, and other initiatives. So to say they are out there just to take away your rights is just accurate.
I am a Christian, in real life, meaning I do my best to live for Christ and behave how He would. It’s hard and I know I fail everyday. That said, the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin. Therefore I do not support gay marriage. However, this does not mean I hate anyone living this lifestyle. To me, why is anyone else’s sin greater than mine? It’s not. I have friends who are gay, and I love them as I do any of my other friends. There is no difference.
I do support the rights of all people to get a job, buy a house, etc. I do not see what sexual orientation, religion or otherwise has to do with you doing a job, unless your choices get in the way of performing your job correctly, stealing or you otherwise make statements that slander your company, etc. firing someone for being gay or not welcoming someone because they are gay does not support the Bible in His commandment to us to “love one another.” I will not judge.
As far as boycotting. I fail to see how boycotting ChickFilA will pass a law allowing gays to marry, because that will not happen. Dan Cathy does not make that call. There are many companies out there that take the same stance on marriage as Cathy, are you boycotting them to?
Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts. And please remember that true Christians do love you and will not judge you. That’s what Jesus teaches. Love the sinner, not the sin. So Christians can still love you even if they do not support gay marriage. It’s nothing personal and you cannot judge someone for their beliefs, as we do not judge yours.
I agree with you totally.
i invite my friends and family to enjoy. i really hope some read this even more then others.
How can you say its a missguided religious teaching when it clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. Now having said this I don’t have a problem with you personally just with what your doing the bible also says love the sinner and hate the sin and just so you know cause I’m not sure what churches you have been to try a true “Church of Christ” we are not hypocrites and here at the Arnold Church of Christ we practice what we preach.
Perfect.
This is awesome. Thank you for sharing this with us.
A very well written post and really gives some great perspective into the issue.
I would pose though what about the end result? The defiant challenge and crying foul (while wholly legitimate) only caused record profits for the company, which would in turn view that as further endorsement and likely continue to persecute in the manner that you describe.
Sadly, on both sides of the argument I’ve found people just want to scream louder and louder while it really accomplishes nothing. There has got to be a better way (albeit not one I foresee soon).
I’m sorry it’s come to this and I’m sorry you’ve been hurt so badly and I’m even more sorry it was at the hands of us Christians. I do consider myself one who does not believe homosexuality is pleasing to God, but I will wholly admit the greater sin is how we have treated those who have a same-sex attraction. Please know that there some of us who still disagree but still genuinely want to love and support you. Also know that I do strive daily to be a stronger voice within that community.
The truth makes beautiful words !
Brilliant and sad. I’m in the “Bible Belt” and yesterday I was sick to my stomach to see or hear about the support for CFA.
This post is extremely well written and I really appreciated reading it and the thoughts that were presented. I would like to address a couple things however. I am tired of people saying all Christians feel a certain way and discriminate a certain way because it is not true. So maybe we should say anti gay people in stead of Christians. Second, I as a strong Christian am very against gay marriage. However, I am all for civil unions for homosexuals and anyone else that does not believe in Christ and his principles. I believe that “marriage” is a term that is used in the insitution of the church which I do not believe is appropriate for homosexuals. I completely agree that gay couples deserve the same legal benefits as everyone else, but I view marriage as a religious union. As far as all the references to other sins being the same as homosexuality and the comparisons that indicate that God loves all of us the same, which He does, and forgives all sin, which He does, the comparison is not accurate. The difference is that a murderer is forgiven for his sin and does not continue to live a life of murdering. An adulterer is forgiven and stops living a life of adultery. We are all sinners and are all forgiving as such, as long as we try to live a more Christ like life style, which means, while we continue to sin, we are trying our dardest, not to. The problem I have with the sin of homosexuality is not the sin itself but the fact that people continue to willingly practice it and thus continue to knowingly and willingly commit a sin. That flies in the face of God. That is where the actual problem lies. I have gay friends that I too love dearly. I have a gay friend who has stopped practicing homosexuality and I have no doubt that I will see him in heaven. While that life must be extremely difficult, it’s a choice that can be made. There are sins that I really enjoy commiting but I don’t because of my love for Christ and my desire to live a more Christ like life. I can’t imagine how difficult that choice would be, to not practice homosexuality if you are gay, because I’m not, but I can appreciate that it would be awful to have to make that choice. I don’t know if I would be strong enough to make that choice. I would like to think so, but I don’t know. But people do it. I am not homophobic and I absolutely do not practice or believe in discrimination. There are practicing homosexuals in my church and I have no issue with that and never will. But I also fear that they will not join me in heaven if they do not “try” to live a more Christ like life. I’m sure this will upset many of you but this is my belief, which I’m entitled to. Again, I really enjoyed this article and think it is very enlightening, well written, and one of the most intelligent things I’ve ever read about this topic.
It’s ok for you to be angry and to boycott chik-fil-a. It’s ok to have your own values and beliefs and to fight for them. It’s also ok for every conservative person who sees your side as sinful to fight for what they believe is right. Tolerance goes both ways, and chik-fil-a isn’t refusing service to anyone. No one is marching you to the gallows or sending you to any of those nine countries you like to mention as if this is some sort of life or death struggle, and if a person, people, or a private business wants to lobby to define marriage as they believe it should be, they have that right. No one complained when Apple donated $100,000 to the campaign against prop 8, yet when a business supports the other side, people start losing their minds. Relax… Boycott chik-fil-a. Speak your mind, but respect those who disagree with you, especially if you want mutual respect from them. Yesterday’s chik-fil-a rallies prove there are a lot of people who disagree with you, and we’re not all brain-dead bigots like you think.
Argumentum ad misericordiam, nothing more.